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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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4000 No Smoke when Pulling?

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Hotrod4000

07-21-2007 05:41:11




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I have a 69 4000 n/a with a JDB pump, both have been rebuilt. The tractor starts fine, runs about 3/4 on temp guage during heavy field work. The question is regarding No Smoke when tractor pulling? I run 2600rpm, dyno @ 105hp. My mechanic took the pump cover off and said the screw was adjusted all the way. Has anyone else seen this, could my timing be set to cause this clean burn? Is there anything I can try to achieve some more power for pulling?

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low budget

07-21-2007 18:23:51




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 05:41:11  
What are the first three numbers after JDB on the pump? Should be 633, the 33 is the size of the plungers. Could it be someone swapped a 31 or 29 pump onto it? My 4020 slips the pto clutch at 150 hp. It is turboed and doesn't smoke under load with the screw turned all the way.



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G/MAN

07-21-2007 12:55:55




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 05:41:11  
The others are right - you're probably getting about all the power you're going to get without more air. Black smoke is nothing but wasted fuel, anyway.



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JD Jim

07-21-2007 09:12:25




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 05:41:11  
I have a 72 4000 that dynoed 115, totally stock with 4200 hrs but pump and injectors were done with pump turned up about 15%. Will smoke black with good hard load. Jim



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John51

07-21-2007 09:05:49




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 05:41:11  
Sure you can make more horses without a turbo. I have a 1971 4000 that runs 140 hp..... .checkd on two different dynos a few years apart. no problems with the rear end, but I don't run it hard too often.



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Hotrod4000

07-22-2007 06:15:51




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to John51, 07-21-2007 09:05:49  
There is another 4000 n/a in the area that puts out 150hp, and has been pulling since it was new. It just takes some time and money. 105CS you need to get out of the John Deere dealers shop and see what some of these other guys can do without a turbo.



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Hotrod4000

07-22-2007 11:48:08




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-22-2007 06:15:51  
I will see if there are any drug free responses to a new blog.



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John-Paul T

07-22-2007 14:39:03




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-22-2007 11:48:08  
With the responses this thread should be in the politics forum LOL.

I like how as soon as someone is in disbeliefe they jump on they "they must be on drugs" defense. News flash you dont have to be on drugs to be stupid nor does being on medication mean you are! Thats dope too. Some folks.

I learned along time ago unless you seen it first hand dont say its impossible! Improbable sure but not impossible. They said that about a VW diesel running on french fry grease but it does run! They said that about corn alch. when it first was experimented with. But it works. They said that about space travel yet there we go. Satalites staying in orbot, oh my the list goes on.

Hotrod keep up the good work and dont let the ney sayers bring you down. you know it to be fact thats all that should matter. You have nothing you need to prove (least as far as Im concerned). Most of all have fun with the tractor!

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John51

07-22-2007 09:09:03




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 Correct in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-22-2007 06:15:51  
Yes, you're right. My 4000 was set up when new, used for pulling by the owner of the shop for a few months before it was sold. Despite what the nonbeliever says, it still runs an honest 140hp with 3400 hours on the tach. Had a friend use it on his chopper when his 5020 was down for a week.....and he couldn't believe how it ran the thing. Like I said, two different dynos, several years apart, different operators..... one at the Deere dealer.

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105CS

07-22-2007 06:58:43




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-22-2007 06:15:51  
I wasn't born yesterday, sonny. If someone's getting 150 hp from a N/A 4000, the dyno is in bad need of calibration, or the operator is smoking dope. You can get the pump to deliver enough fuel to make 150 hp---without a turbo, you can't get enough air to burn that fuel.



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4020dt

07-22-2007 16:27:06




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to 105CS, 07-22-2007 06:58:43  
I'm with you 105cs , in fact I was born 22 yrs before the first 4020 came out and have been playing with them for 40+ years . I had mine up to 118 once before I put the turbo on , that's all I could get , had a wild leaf spring in it and smoked worse than a superstock puller . I know several very knowledegable 4020 mechanics and they ALL SAY the same . Anybody that has run a dyno knows well that you can make them show just about what you want to show !!!

I know I'm going to catch H$$L for this statement but I have been around lots and lots of 4020's both farming and pulling from the time they were new .

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105CS

07-21-2007 13:43:59




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to John51, 07-21-2007 09:05:49  
One has to wonder what the dyno operators were smoking..... ...



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Mike Aylward

07-21-2007 07:08:46




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 05:41:11  
Hotrod, I would imagine that the leaf spring on the pump you have may be a smaller spring. These springs will say "7-X" with the "X" number being the difference. As this number goes bigger the spring gets wider which allows more fuel into the engine. Also, many times there are shims behind this spring which do not allow you to tighten the spring setting. You can remove these as well. I am surprised your pump shop didn"t do this. For using your tractor, it sounds like they did a good job of "stock tuning". Your tractor sounds like it runs pretty true. Mike

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Hotrod4000

07-21-2007 07:34:31




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Mike Aylward, 07-21-2007 07:08:46  
My mechanic pulled the cover off the pump to verify the shims were removed, and they were. The next step was to adjust the internal allen screw and that was adjusted for maximum fuel delivery. I am not sure about what spring is in there, i will find out. I would just like to be able to overfuel the motor and then back it down for optimum power on the dyno. I know in a perfect world you could make top power with no smoke, but the tractors that are making big power are always overfueling to some degree.

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Mike Aylward

07-21-2007 09:10:59




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 07:34:31  
While Deere didn't use them, many other brands used a "torque screw" that allowed external adjustment of the pump. It was nothing more than a stop for the metering valve. The spring was compressed for maximum fuel delivery then the horsepower level was "dialed in" using the torque screw. This would make what you want to do much easier. Mike



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wilamayb

07-21-2007 06:56:53




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 05:41:11  
I might add that you are making about as much horse power as the old 4000 needs. I think you will see drive train problems if you overpower it and use it for tillage work. It does have a little less "butt" than a 4020. It could be debated that a 4000 drive train resembles a 4010 which made 80 HP. Thats an extra 25 HP!

If in fact you are not headed to the field and just want to play with black smoke you can get a second opinion on that pump limiting screw. How about the supply pump. Is it making proper pressure?

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Hotrod4000

07-21-2007 07:08:12




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to wilamayb, 07-21-2007 06:56:53  
My mechanic manually primed the fuel pump with the line off and said it was working fine. Should I install a pressure guage inline, and if so what should the working range be? As far as the rearend the 4000 does not use a 4010 rearend, but does share the same size axle of 3.125". I would like to be able to run around 125hp for some local pulling and then turn it back down for field work.



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wilamayb

07-21-2007 08:55:13




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 07:08:12  
You're right. It is not a 4010 rearend. As I stated it "resembles" a 4010 rearend meaning it was not as "beefy" as the 4020, however I think if you will check your parts book you will find it shares as many parts with the 4010 as it does with the 4020 rear end. It does have a few parts that are found only in the 4000. If you are interested in only a short hard pull every once in a while I think you will be fine. I think you may have a problem if you head to the field pulling a heavy tillage tool for long periods of time. FYI that axle diameter was used all the way down to the 620/630 tractor making 42 HP. Is it good for 125, a 300% increase? One way to find out!

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105CS

07-21-2007 08:38:45




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 07:08:12  
You're kidding yourself---you're not going to make 125 horsepower naturally aspirated without a lot of modifications, most of them expensive. As for the rear end, you are correct in that the 4000 uses 4010 axles, but you should also know that the gears in the planetaries in both final drives of the 4000 are significantly narrower than a 4020.



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wilamayb

07-21-2007 06:44:21




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 Re: 4000 No Smoke when Pulling? in reply to Hotrod4000, 07-21-2007 05:41:11  
Sounds like you have achieved what everyone else wants... You must have great compression, good air flow and injectors that are atomizing the fuel well. You cant complain about that!

My 4020 makes 103 or so at rated speed, but it does blacksmoke when it opens up.

I believe the 94 HP was at rated PTO speed (540), which could be why you ended up with a few extra horses when spooling up to 2600. I'm not positive, but I thought 4020's governed out at 2400?

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