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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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720 D issues, need the experts help

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BLinWMi

06-28-2007 20:00:23




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Just bought a 720 standard and have been tinkering with it. First issue is that it seems to be building crankcase pressure, it is blowing oil out from under the pony when the diesel is at full steam. It is blowing bubbles and as soon as the oil fill cap is removed it stops. How do I trace down what is preventing the crankcase from venting as it should? I can run it as long as I keep the oil filler cap off but it will continually leak if the cap is on. Next issue is with the pony. I have never seen an engine that smokes as this does but it runs fairly good. It has some nasty black ooze that is leaking from the joints in the pony muffler system. I had been advised to run it for a good length of time motoring the diesel under compression to get the pony good and hot to burn out the black sludge. Problem is, the pony is not able to motor the diesel under full compression for very long, it will for about 15 seconds then will drag down and die. I did a compression test on the front 2 cylinders and they are at 135 and 145 pounds. The back two I am unable to test with my tester because of location. Assuming they make similiar compression, any ideas why my pony just doesn't have the horse? I have put in new plugs several days ago and someone has replaced the coils with externally mounted 12 volt. Any advice ya'll can throw this way?

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Timothy Martin Burkett

06-29-2007 09:24:57




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to BLinWMi, 06-28-2007 20:00:23  
mjbrown and others with pony advice, would you please read my poth titled jd pony motor. I wonder if I have burnt up my coils and also how to put auto coils on. Thanks, tim



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F-I-T

06-29-2007 11:10:08




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to Timothy Martin Burkett, 06-29-2007 09:24:57  
Just spend the money and put the correct coils on it. You'll be happier in the long run, IMHO. If you have the room, time and inclination, you can put in an oil pressure sensitive switch on the pony that will not allow the coils to fry if you let the switch on.



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buickanddeere

06-29-2007 07:18:20




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to BLinWMi, 06-28-2007 20:00:23  
There is a PCV vent through the block from the injection pump cavity. To a hole drilled into the head leading to the intake port. It's possible that vent is plugged and aggrivating the situation. Make certain the 720's diesel isn't worn out due to a rusted out heat exchanger liner inside the intake pre-heat casting.



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F-I-T

06-29-2007 09:12:25




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to buickanddeere, 06-29-2007 07:18:20  
I thought pump cavity just vented through those gaping holes caused by the push rods....it's a common atmosphere with the crankcase, upper block pump cavity, and the valve cover. The vent of any diesel fuel that slips by the injector pistons burbles out through those two little bent pipes and go into the head intake port so it can be slurped up in to the intake slip stream. Once I moved those pipes and taped a plastic baggy over them and ran the engine for a bit to confirm that there was too much by-passing of fuel and that sent me to the injector rebuild shop.

Frank

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buickanddeere

06-29-2007 09:32:07




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to F-I-T, 06-29-2007 09:12:25  
Maybe it's just the 80/820/830/840? They draw crankcase "air" into the cylinder heads's intake port. From a set of holes lined up from the intake port, through the head, through the block and into the injection pump cavity.



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F-I-T

06-29-2007 11:07:45




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to buickanddeere, 06-29-2007 09:32:07  
I would not know on an 80 series.

How's that leg doing?



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buickanddeere

06-29-2007 15:01:19




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 very well all considered, thankyou Re: 720 D issues, need th in reply to F-I-T, 06-29-2007 11:07:45  
F.I.T. All considered, very well. What are you up to as of late? Any luck getting that laptop brought back to life. The ankle is weak, stiff, painful and noisy.It's improving however.Physiotherapy is interesting. Back a couple of pages jdemaris & myself had a good chat. My injury is a mere scratch compared to his breaks. I'll just count my blessings and not complain. We plan on attending the NY Expo in a couple of weeks. The 24V electrical system parts here should be dragged out and assembled for an exhibit. We had the 40,50,60,70G RC,70D Std & the 80 out for a tractor run with a club a couple of weeks ago. It was embarrassing when enough rust shook out of the tank to plug the sediment bowl valve. It was made worse due to the bowl screen which happened to be rusted out. No fun having the other colour tractors cruise on by.

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Mike M

06-29-2007 07:45:25




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to buickanddeere, 06-29-2007 07:18:20  
Sounds like you described the injector leak off return lines. Newer stuff returns fuel to the tank these old ones dumped it into the intake.



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F-I-T

06-29-2007 06:32:32




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to BLinWMi, 06-28-2007 20:00:23  
BL:

Your situation makes me think that you have a severely worn diesel rings/bore that is causing the blow-by of the diesel to overwhelm the small passage through the pony block, up through the top block deck, and up the pipe to the pony breather. If you remove the small pipe I'll bet you see a steady stream of blow by that is impressive. This over-pressurizes the pony air cleaner, and it gyrates any oil in the pony oil bath, and it fogs its way into the pony intake, increasing the oil that the pony has to burn.

"All Pony's smoke" is an easy way to describe virtually all non-maintained, 50 year old starting engines. I overhauled mine a few years ago, replaced pistons, rings, valve guides, and sleeves where necessary, honed it properly, and it does not smoke. At idle, wide open, under load for 4 or 5 minutes at a time, it does not smoke. The oil control rings in these ponies do not last long when they are subjected to cold, raw gas starts, and most ponies smoke because the rings and bore are worn, and the valve guides are sloppy. Also check the oil drain back hole in the heads as it is not much over 5/32" in diameter.

Almost every diesel that is black around the pony is worn to the point that it cannot vent all the blow-by that is present. I have seen them blow by so hard that when putting out full power on a dyno they blow the oil bath cup off the pony air cleaner.

The black goo you see coming out of the pony exhaust pipes is a combination of soot from the diesel, oil from the diesel, oil from the pony, and diesel fuel residue that has accumulated over time from the high volume of blow by that is saturating everything it can with this oily mist. The fog can make its way through the block to the air cleaner, then it condenses and drips into the pony intake manifold where it waits to be blown into the exhaust pipe.

Get the pony firing properly, and warm it up, and run it with some fresh oil for an extended period of time. It will begin to heat up the exhaust and burn the crud out in short order. Be sure to do this in an open area, well ventilated. After this, make some calculated observations and I think you'll see that only a severely worn diesel engine can produce that amount of blow by. After I rebored and installed new pistons in the course of my 70D project, you can plug the pony vent pipe, and remove the oil filler cap, and it will barely lift a playing card. That is how they are supposed to be.

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mjbrown

06-29-2007 04:14:59




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to BLinWMi, 06-28-2007 20:00:23  
Most ponys smoke, at least on start up that I have seen. Sounds like pretty good compression. Make sure you shut down the pony by turning off the gas valve and letting it burn up all the gas in the carb. Make sure your gas shut off valve shuts off the gas completely. The gas from the tank will run down into the pony cylinders and into the oil if you don't. Gas diluted oil makes a smokey pony.
The coils are likely 6V. It is much cheaper to use those instead of expensive pony coil and they work better. I had them on mine and hid them up under the hood on a bracket. I used plug wires to go to the distributor so it looked correct. I have since learned on here how to avoid burning up pony coils. After switching to the car type coils I never had any more ignition problems.

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Bob

06-28-2007 20:26:50




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to BLinWMi, 06-28-2007 20:00:23  
The main engine crankcase vents through the oil bath air filter on the "pony".

Have you checked the that filter?

Also, IIRC, there is a gasket where the oil bath "cup" meets the upper part of the pony's air cleaner. Is that gasket present?

Also, there's probably a gasket leak between the pony and the main case.

The pony exhaust will probably clean up some with use.

It sounds like there is a fuel flow restriction in the fuel system of the pony, anything from a collapsed hose between the fuel tank and carb, to crud in the carburetor, making it run short of power after the 15 seconds, or so.

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Kent Petersen

06-29-2007 15:43:01




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 Re: 720 D issues, need the experts help in reply to Bob, 06-28-2007 20:26:50  
Guys all the old 2 cyls diesels dump extra fuel from inj back to intake port in head. the head also has a port to pull vapors out of diesel the air cleaner on the pony is the sorces of clean air for the main engine vent if you dont belive this then why is the a oil bath air cleaner on the elec start models it should be cleaned and oil changed each time the main engine oil is changed hope this helps Kent

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