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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Welding Head on A

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Josh B

06-28-2007 06:10:38




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The head on an A I just acquired has the infamous blown out the bottom from someone leaving water and it freezing. My question is what are the odds of successfully welding with nickel rod. Or should I try to braze it back on. Also it has a couple of holes where someone used u-bolts and bondo to seal up the leak. Could I successfully fill in the hole with the nickel rod. Is this type of Iron prone to cracking when it cools even if i preheat and post heat with the torch and submerse in sand afterwards. Any help is appreciated.


Josh B

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Lee @ Elk Mound

06-28-2007 13:14:40




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to Josh B, 06-28-2007 06:10:38  
Josh, I have a good head you could have reasonably if you're anywhere near Wisconsin.



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Maark

06-28-2007 12:02:20




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to Josh B, 06-28-2007 06:10:38  
I have welded a couple of unstyled A heads with good results. I used Nickel 99 welding rod. Make sure you V out the areas to be welded.



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kendak

06-28-2007 10:06:47




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to Josh B, 06-28-2007 06:10:38  
only problem is that if it cracked on the outside it will also be cracked on the inside where you can't see...the ice does't care ....good luck...Kent



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F-I-T

06-28-2007 10:45:36




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to kendak, 06-28-2007 10:06:47  
"Will also" means definately, and the ice does care. It will only push in the path of least resistance. Quite often on an "A" head they just push the bottom out, but certainly you need to take the pieces off and look things over very well before you decide it is worth a try at repair.

Now, if it is true that you can't always see a crack on the inside, then you run that same risk with a 60 year old "good" used head, too. :)

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kendak

06-28-2007 11:03:35




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to F-I-T, 06-28-2007 10:45:36  
very true..I have a unstyled 'A" with a welded head that is ok but I have seen more cracked internally than on the outside...when I was in high school in the 60's my dad had 27 "A"s on our farm & I've seen quite a few cracked from heat or freezing...then again had a driver break off the lower radiator fitting & dump all the water out & drive the tractor 1/2 mile to the shop without any water..it had turned white hot not red by the time he got there ...dad let it cool off several days repaired it poured it full of water & sent it back to the field ...just a thought ...Kent

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Josh B

06-28-2007 12:20:36




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to kendak, 06-28-2007 11:03:35  
I thought the same thing but I am pretty sure it is ok as there was no water in the oil. The crack is pretty bad though. I would say if you took the water neck off and you were physically strong enough to rip off the bottom of the head that would be a pretty good comparison.

Josh



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HAPPY DEERE

06-28-2007 06:49:47




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to Josh B, 06-28-2007 06:10:38  
you would be better off just getting a good used head



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kendak

06-28-2007 08:15:07




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to HAPPY DEERE, 06-28-2007 06:49:47  
I agree "A" heads are eazy to find get another one...Kent



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F-I-T

06-28-2007 06:22:31




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to Josh B, 06-28-2007 06:10:38  
Josh:

I have had good luck on castings using Muggy WEld cast iron rod. It's not as hard as nickel and easier to work and grind and even thread. I like it better than nickel or brazing.

Frank



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Josh B

06-28-2007 07:27:18




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to F-I-T, 06-28-2007 06:22:31  
Is it really neccessary to use both the 72 and 77 rods or will the old cast accept the 77's. Also what is the best size and heat setting that you have found with a/c or d/c.


Thanks for your help.

Josh



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F-I-T

06-28-2007 09:04:06




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to Josh B, 06-28-2007 07:27:18  
I just use the 77 rod as I haven't had to repair anything "structural", you know, something bearing a great weight, like a rear end housing. I used AC (a Lincoln 225) and about 120 amps, maybe 140. You'll want to experiment a bit before you fix your first important casting, but I practiced a bit on an old motor block and went off to repair a broken transmission shift fork in my "H" transmission. It could have looked better, but it was my first repair and it worked out fine for me. I like to warm things up with a rosebud, do my welding, then use the rosebud to S-L-O-W-L-Y bring it down, and if you can put it in a sand bucket, or insulate it in a bed of clean kitty litter, that will help. A top and bottom layer of R-30 fiberglass insulation will slow the cool down as well. I probably take too many precautions there, but so far, I've never had a post-weld crack, weep, or seep, so I'm going to keep doing what I've done in the past. I have saved some had-to-replace castings using Muggy Weld.

Here's a series of photos showing the broken shifting fork. I vee�d the crack and slid the parts onto the transmission shift rod to keep them in alignment on the common bore. Then I welded it, and while I was post-heating it, I made sure the fork did not hang up on the rod. Like I said, it might not be pretty, and my welds after that were much neater, but this one was my first, it was solid and strong, so I stopped. It looks nicer on the back side. i had my problems in that front recess, so I made a seconf pass, so the weld looks high. I could have ground that off, but elected to do that when I finally do the complete tear down later down the road. Sorry, these are the only photos I have.

third party image


third party image


third party image

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Josh B

06-28-2007 09:33:59




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to F-I-T, 06-28-2007 09:04:06  
That looks like a good weld to me. As long as it all holds together. What do you think about using a gas grill or charcoal grill to preheat and post heat with? I am not sure if it would damage the valve guides or not. Thanks for all your help. Sounds like I may order some. I know like some have suggested it would probably be easier to junk the head and find a new one but I hate to throw it away when it came off a running tractor and it could be fixed. Then again if i am unsuccesful all i have lost is a little time and the cost of the rods.

Josh

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F-I-T

06-28-2007 09:43:55




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 Re: Welding Head on A in reply to Josh B, 06-28-2007 09:33:59  
I know several people who pre and post heat with gas or charcoal grilles, but I think it won't get that heavy chunk of cast iron hot enough in both directions, but that's just me. It might not be a problem at all. I would like to see it hot enough in the area of your weld for a ball of spit to bounce and dance around as it boils off. I can't get you any more scientific than that, but if you have an acetylene tank set and a rosebud, you can get it to heat in short order. You won't hurt those valve guides. Are you sure it doesn't need new ones any way? Most old JD heads do.

I agree that sometimes it just makes economical sense to look for another head, and A and B heads are fairly common, but like you, I like to try to save something along the way. One thing is, you can practice on this head, develop you technique, and if you get a good repair, you learned another trick to use to save another casting down the road. Some day it will come in handy.

Frank

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F-I-T

06-28-2007 09:45:05




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 Another thing... in reply to F-I-T, 06-28-2007 09:43:55  
If you hold a piece of copper under those holes, you can fill them easier since the weld will not stick to copper. You probably already knew that.



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