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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Modern tractors built strong ?

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5020Chris

05-05-2007 10:04:58




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Have been wondering are the modern tractors built as strong as they were years ago ? What I mean is when I look at the back end on my 6030 everything looks like it has been over built for the amount of hp it was designed for (before engine swap) and if you look at a modern equivelant it dosn"t seem to "look" as strong. Any thoughts ?
Chris.




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DSK

05-07-2007 14:40:33




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 Re: Modern tractors built strong ? in reply to 5020Chris, 05-05-2007 10:04:58  
...this whole topic reminds me of a story my Dad told me some years ago. He bought the first 4010 Diesel sold in this part of the state. Of course all the neighbors were curious about the completely new John Deere on the block and most of them stopped in for a first hand look. Some of them said that was too much change at once for JD & the tractors would never last because they weren't build "heavy enough" compared to their beloved 2-cylinders. One neighbor even bought one of the last 730's available even though he could have bought a 4010 for less than $500 more. ...what a mistake as we all know what a failure the 4010 was,LOL. The same thing is true about the new tractors of today, they ARE better than anything previously available, Deere does not produce tractors that are not better than the ones they replace or they would have went the way of IHC, Moline & Oliver, i.e. bellyup.If you haven't run one, on what grounds are you comparing them to your tractors? I have owned a 4020 and a 4450 MFWD putting more than 4500 Hrs. on each, they were and still are great tractors, but they are not more tractor then the current ones. As for plastic junk, I don't think they put any of that in the final drives or the engine block, and my 8220 has less plastic in the cab than my new pickup.

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G/MAN

05-06-2007 10:57:49




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 Re: Modern tractors built strong ? in reply to 5020Chris, 05-05-2007 10:04:58  
Newer Deere tractors may not "look" much stronger than older ones, but in nearly all aspects that are much stronger and infinitely smarter, which actually adds to the strength. In the good old days, a guy that rode the clutch could have his foot on the pedal all day and essentially destroy the clutch in a few days, or neglect the oil level and damage the engine. Today, with the electronics, the tractor is going to let you know you're screwing up. Metallurgy and manufacturing techniques have also come a long way. It used to be common practice to "overbuild" to include a safety factor. Smart engineering at the time, but not as cost-effective as building something as strong as it needs to be and stopping there. In just about every way, a modern 200-hp Deere (say an 8200) tractor, which would be roughly equivalent to a 6030, is so much stronger and more powerful that it's not funny. Hydraulic horsepower? Hitch-lift capacity? Drawbar horsepower when you figure in MFWD? The 6081 engine in a late 8000 or 8010 is ten times the engine a 6531A or even a 6619A ever thought of being. Would you rather jam 8 gears with a Synchro-Range or flip through 16 speeds in an 8000 powershift with one finger? And then when you start looking at comfort and convenience, the whole comparison disappears.

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David Snipes

05-07-2007 12:22:15




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 Re: Modern tractors built strong ? in reply to G/MAN, 05-06-2007 10:57:49  
Do you work for a Deere dealer? It all sounds nice, but I would rather have a tractor that is over built than one that is engineered to be just strong enough. When you see some of the breaks that occur on over built tractors I wonder how the just strong enough ones will be when they get old. Don't get me wrong, I know that metallury can improve, but I think "cost effective" is the key phrase. Manufacturers are learning how to be more cost effective to compete. I will still take the over built tractor any day. I do like the Deere tractors, having owned an H, a 1010 and now a 1640.

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G/MAN

05-09-2007 10:45:09




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 Re: Modern tractors built strong ? in reply to David Snipes, 05-07-2007 12:22:15  
Yes, I do. Overbuilding isn't as effective as you'd think. It makes the part more expensive, can make the machine more complicated than it needs to be, and generally adds to the overall expense of the machine in general. Not to mention the fact that if you try hard enough, you can break an "overbuilt" part as easily as any other, and when people see something that they consider to be "overbuilt", they tend to try to find the limits, and when they do, you still end up with a broken part. Give me smart engineering in place of redundant engineering any day of the week.

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Acadianbob

05-06-2007 07:02:20




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 Re: Modern tractors built strong ? in reply to 5020Chris, 05-05-2007 10:04:58  
That's a hard question to answer; it depends. I was recently looking for a 40 to 50 horsepower utility tractor with loader. The new 5000 series Deere with loader was over $20,000. I wound up buying a refurbished 1020 with loader for 1/3 the price. And IMO, it looks to be substantially more tractor than the new 5000 series.



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smith55

05-05-2007 10:50:27




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 Re: Modern tractors built strong ? in reply to 5020Chris, 05-05-2007 10:04:58  
I don't know for sure as my newest tractor is a 22 year old 4450. But,i'd say the older ones are definitely built to last far better. No plastic junk,etc. I'll take my 4450 or 4020 anyday over a new one of the same size. The older tractors are very reliable. Not saying some of the new ones aren't,but as a whole,it seems that they have more problems. I know of a guy that has a 13,000 hour 4850 and he bought a 800-houred 8320 and has had more trouble with the 8320 then he has with his 50. IMHO the older ones are stronger,but just don't have the creature comforts of the new ones. Though you'll never see me saying my 4450 isn't comfortable. Have a good one.

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G/MAN

05-06-2007 11:10:20




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 Re: Modern tractors built strong ? in reply to smith55, 05-05-2007 10:50:27  
Until you stop to think how much more capable that 8320 is than the 50, and how much more advanced. That comparison isn't apples to apples, it's apples to grand pianos. That 8320 will do in minutes what would take a 50 days, and no, 8020s have not been trouble-free, as Deere went back to the drawing board on some things as a result of CUSTOMER SUGGESTION - such as improving the flow-control capablity of the SCVS, which ended up making the valves much more complicated and more "fragile". Other changes were due to good old Uncle Sam and various rules and laws that have to be adhered to, such as the adoption of the HPCR engine to meet emissions regs, which is much more advanced and complicated than the prior 6081s with the electronic injection pump and nozzles. Expecting a 21st-century tractor with many times more moving parts and infinitely more complicated systems to be as "reliable" as a tractor built using technology that existed in the early 20th century is a little ridiculous. It seems to me that it used to be fairly common to do valve jobs on old tractors. We don't see that today. They used to use oil-bath air cleaners that were supposed to be serviced daily - not today. Brakes and clutches required regular maintenance and adjustment - not today. Generators and starters were supposed to be periodically given a few drops of oil in their oil cups - not today. Fan belts used to require tensioning as they stretched - not today. Oil-change intervals used to be well under 50 hours in certain conditions - today Deere recommends up to 375 hours in certain conditions. Rear-axle bearings used to require greasing - not today. Carburetors required periodic adjustment throughout the year - not today. Points, plugs, caps, rotors and wires required replacement - not today. Batteries required frequent maintenance and could easily be overcharged and damaged if there was a charging-system problem - not today. Steering gears became worn over time and required adjustment or replacement - not today. Shall I go on about how much more "work" it takes to keep a modern tractor in the field than an old one?

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DSK

05-05-2007 10:47:42




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 Re: Modern tractors built strong ? in reply to 5020Chris, 05-05-2007 10:04:58  
As far as engine & drivetrain are concerned, I think the newer tractors (8000-9000 series & newer) are better than any model that ever came out of Waterloo before them. Deere has learned a lot in these areas over the years. There are a number of 8000 series row-crops out there approaching 10,000 hours with no major mechanical failures. There has probably been & will continue to be more electrical & computer related issues on these tractors than mechanical failures. If someone says they don't build them like they used to, my reply is usually that I'm glad they don't, especially if you have to put in a 12-14 hr. day in the field.

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