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Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems??

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AWB

01-02-2000 17:57:20

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Will a 50-50 solution of either Ethylene glycol or propylene glycol antifreeze and water cool properly in my John Deere Tractor? (2-cylinder and has no water pump) I have to use the tractor in a lot of below freezing weather. Thanks.

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RonMC

01-03-2000 17:50:08

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Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to AWB, 01-02-2000 17:57:20

Steamer and Chuck, etc are right on. Always keep some antifreeze in the system. The circulation won't be affected, and the boiling point is higher, also the evap rate from these open systems is cut down considerably. You should drain and replace every couple of years, but your block and head will stay in much better condition with a reasonable mix in them. If you are in a freeze-up area, you don't have to remember to drain it, which is not a sure thing, and if you're in a milder climate, well, surprises happen, don't they ?

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Steamer

01-03-2000 07:45:05

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Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to AWB, 01-02-2000 17:57:20

Having the usual 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and water won't harm anything in the thermosiphon system. Mix it before putting it in, because there will be very little mixing in the engine since it has no water pump. Pure anti-freeze has very little heat transfer properties (which is why it needs to be mixed 50/50 with water) and, if it's not premixed, you are likely to form hot spots in the block before the coolant mass heats up enough to move through the jacket.....

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Chuck

01-03-2000 04:59:32

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Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to AWB, 01-02-2000 17:57:20

water is the best coolant, however it evaporates, this is reason for 50/50 mix in summer, with a pressure system takes higher temperature to evaporate. My suggestion again is to mix up your antifreeze, 50/50, install in tractor and forget about it....my 520 will peg out if it's under heavy/extreme load, don't worry about this, these old JD's will take care of themselves, years ago(farming) I ran a 44 B all fuel and it always stayed pegged out, just keep liquid in it...

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Pappy

01-02-2000 19:53:40

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Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to AWB, 01-02-2000 17:57:20

Anti-Freeze is wonderful stuff. To avoid a problem, mix the anti-freeze and water 50/50 before you pour it in to the radiator. Otherwise, it may boil over before the mixture gets mixed. There was a discussion on the JD Board about this a while back. If you pour the anti-freeze in, and then the water, it may overheat before it gets mixed. Take it from one who knows.

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Zman

01-03-2000 04:02:11

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Re: Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to Pappy, 01-02-2000 19:53:40

How about in the summer? I have used 50-50 antifreeze since I have owned my '41 A and have had trouble with it tending to overheat in the summer. Will my cooling system perform better with straight water?

Zman.

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zane

01-03-2000 08:52:52

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Re: Re: Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to Zman, 01-03-2000 04:02:11

It probably will perform better with pure water. The coolant mass has to circulate thru the radiator to effect cooling. In the thermosiphon system, circulation is accomplished when the coolant expands, and becomes less dense, upon heating in the engine water jacket. Ethylene glycol antifreeze does not have the thermal expansion properties of water. In the absence of a water pump, it is reasonable to expect pure water to circulate better.

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Wind

01-03-2000 09:09:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to zane, 01-03-2000 08:52:52

Would a lighter mix help at all? Maybe a 70/30? Just wondering. I am in the middle of a restoration of a 35 B and when parade season comes around this would be good to know. Also, wouldn't it help with prevention of rust in the system? See post above for the why of this question.

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zane

01-03-2000 13:19:38

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to Wind, 01-03-2000 09:09:26

I'm not saying not to use antifreeze. I use it myself in my 39 A to protect against freezing and, like you say, to help protect against rust. But, with antifreeze in it, I wouldn't expect my A not to overheat if fully loaded in hot weather.

And if it does overheat, it may not boil, because antifreeze RAISES the boiling point of its water solutions.

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Steve Smith

01-03-2000 16:55:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to zane, 01-03-2000 13:19:38

Lots of good comments! I am running water with a couple of cans of rust inhibitor in it in my 44 B. I like the mixture but freezing is not an issue for me in central Texas.
Steve

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Zman

01-04-2000 03:48:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to Steve Smith, 01-03-2000 16:55:37

Looks like I can do it both ways. Water with rust inhibitor in the summer -- antifreeze in the winter. It's 6 degrees outside in Central Kansas right now.

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RonMC

01-06-2000 23:43:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to Zman, 01-04-2000 03:48:22

Zman, if your machine is running too hot in the summer, there is a product called "water wetter", don't remember the brand name, but it increases the thermal coefficient of water, enabling a better heat transfer in the rad. It can be used with antifreeze mix, and left in year round. My brother says it lowered the running temp on his MCI bus by more than 25 degrees within a few minutes of putting it in the rad. Most likely find it in truck shops, etc.

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Chuck

01-02-2000 18:49:20

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Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to AWB, 01-02-2000 17:57:20

50/50 should be about right, what I use, check the label. Non pressure system wouldn't make any difference

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chuck mcdonald

01-02-2000 18:20:28

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Re: Antifreeze in Thermosiphon Cooling systems?? in reply to AWB, 01-02-2000 17:57:20

hey,
I myself own a '37 "B" JD and use the reccommended mixture of antifreze and water with no problems. I have a friend that has 2 "M" JD's and leaves them in unheated sheds and runs them in the winter. He uses anitfreze in them and also doesn't experiences any problems. Its better to have antifreeze in them than pure water anyway because it wont freeze and crack precious "old iron."
hope this helps,
chaz aka "Tractor Boy"

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