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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230

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johnsdeere

01-07-2007 13:02:31




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Heres the deal I broke have 2 large bolts probally 3/4 inch, broken off about 1/2 below the surface that held the front loader bracket on my 4230. It looks like the steel is cast (same piece that front weights bolt too). So can I torch out the rest of the bolts in here, they are grade eight bolts?




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NLX

01-09-2007 21:34:24




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
Centre drill the broken stud, as it is 3/4" you can drill to about 7/16"+. Run a weld along the drilled hole, then weld a piece of tube to the stud, let it cool, it should then screw out easily. Heating and allowing to cool before welding can help with badly siezed studs.



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buickanddeere

01-09-2007 08:26:14




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
Plasma cutter and burn it out should other methods fail.



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little helper

01-08-2007 20:54:34




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
I have had good luck using left handed drill bits. As the bit goes in it loosens the bolt while trying to drill the hole.



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G/MAN

01-08-2007 07:47:07




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
I'd drill holes through them and get penetrating oil on the backside of the threads before trying anything. With the heads broken off, the bolt is no longer under tension and should screw out fairly easily apart from whatever rust and corrosion there is on the threads. I'd drill a small hole through them centered as well as possible, squirt penetrating oil behind them, give them some good taps, repeat and let them soak for a while. May not take much at all to get them loose that way. If that doesn't do the trick, I'd slowly heat them red-hot and then allow them to cool thoroughly, which will shrink them and help them come out. Or if you centered the initial holes well, you can drill them out progressively bigger until there's very little left and work them out from there. But make sure you do all the drilling you want to do before applying any heat, as they'll get hard as can be after being heated up and allowed to cool, and will be very hard to drill. I mention drilling and heat because I'm not a big fan of attacking bolts and castings with a torch, particularly in a high-load area like a loader mount where you want as much thread engagement as possible.

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Grumps

01-08-2007 04:49:09




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
John I have had good luck in removing broken bolts by sliping a peice of hyd tubing in the hole and welding to broken bolt as good as possible and welding a big nut are cross tee on to tubing, heat the complete tubing, nut and then put a good hammer blow to upset threads and then slowly pour water over the hold goldberg work of art to cool it, most times you can remove with very little torque. Joe

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yellowcrawler

01-07-2007 19:44:01




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
An old timer told me a technique that I have used many times in blowing bolts out. Use a cutting torch to get the bolt hot, as you start to give the cutting oxygen, with the other hand, shut off the acetelyne. The oxygen will only blow the bolt and it won't harm the threads! I have run just a tap afterward to clean up the threads.

A couple of cautions, it is hard to start again if you loose the cutting action deep in the hole and the material will become very hard because of the quenching action of the surrounding material, so you will find drilling very difficult. I have used this method on a lot of broken exhaust studs and recently on a stubborn crawler track pin.

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Mark Scholten

01-07-2007 17:37:21




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
What I do with recessed broken bolts is, I find a pipe nipple the proper size to fit in the hole. Then I get a small welding rod, 3/32 usually, and I weld inside the pipe to the bolt, let it cool to the touch, then put a small pipe wrench or channel locks on the pipe nipple and hope it starts to move. With patience, you"ll have a nice clean removal.
Mark



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CPeter

01-07-2007 18:58:42




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to Mark Scholten, 01-07-2007 17:37:21  
I like the sound of this. I have one to try it on. Broken off just flush.

CPeter



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TBA

01-07-2007 17:30:31




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
even with the bolt broken off flush you can put a nut on it and weld inside it a little at a time, stick the rod in deep, untell it bonds well, wate untell it cools completely before trying to back it out,because when its hot the bolt has expanded due to the heat,stay away from torch if posible



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Glen in TX

01-07-2007 17:06:20




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
Why save old buckets of washers and nuts? Because you can use them to lay on top of that broke bolt welding the nut to broke bolt if sticking up enough and then let it cool off and hope it turns right out later. If not then you get to blow it out with torch yep...



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F-I-T

01-07-2007 17:20:18




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to Glen in TX, 01-07-2007 17:06:20  
Kinda hard to weld a nut on since he said they were broken off 1/2" BELOW the surface.....isn't it?



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Glen in TX

01-07-2007 17:28:35




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to F-I-T, 01-07-2007 17:20:18  
So use a smaller NUT ?? Blow em out. Don't matter if in steering motor or block they will blow out with torch.



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F-I-T

01-07-2007 18:05:33




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to Glen in TX, 01-07-2007 17:28:35  
Ya but Glen? If you weld a small enough nut to fit down in a 3/4" hole, with the threads making the hole even smaller, then allow enough room to slip a socket over it, what size nut are you welding on? A 5/16"? I don't think that would allow you crank very hard on that thread slug that's stuck in there tight, unless he just sheared them off and it's sitting in there loose.

I have blown them out, and you might have to keep the igniter handy for re-lights, but if you heat from a slight angle, the slag runs down and out. Though it is certainly not my preferred choice for broken bolt removal. I have also seen them removed with a carbon torch.

Maybe I'm not understanding your technique.

Frank

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Glen in TX

01-07-2007 21:06:32




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to F-I-T, 01-07-2007 18:05:33  
If it's broke that far down he'll just have to blow them out and turn oxygen up more and cover up with leather and a good shield. Never seen those frame bolts sitting in there loose after broke off anyway because of rust and dirt build up behind frame. It's never fun for sure. I should have took pics of one on the bil's 4640 they broke on this last fall.



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John T

01-07-2007 16:18:44




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 Re: Can torch out broken bolts ????s 4230 in reply to johnsdeere, 01-07-2007 13:02:31  
John, Welllll lll I dont like to admit it lol but I did that very same thing once and it created a mess and I got burned and the torch tip sure gets all gunked up but I did eventually melt n slobber n gom n goo with enough heat that the bolt pretty much melted out without doing much harm to the threads. It wasnt a pretty sight but when I got done n cleaned her out n chased the threads it was mission accomplished i reckon.

Let us know if you succeed or cut n mess things up something awful?????

John T (NOT an answer Im proud of)

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