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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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4020 versus 4000 again

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John51

12-22-2006 11:02:18




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Since jdeere70 disagreed with me, I made a trip in the cold rain to the machine shed. I am correct .....axles on the 4000 are 3 and 1/8 inch, axles on the 4020 are 3 and 3/8 inch. Quite noticable when they are sitting side by side. As far as the block, they are EXACTLY the same, right down to the casting number. The engine is the same. I stand by my earlier comments.




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No way

12-22-2006 19:08:10




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to John51, 12-22-2006 11:02:18  
I'm not one to disagree with you guys but my question is directed toward John51 who claims to have checked the casting numbers but from my memory you would have had to remove the starters to get a clear view as those numbers are hidden from sight unless the starter is removed. And that doesnt mean that you have the origional block in one or the other also unless you purchased both tractors new.

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wolfman

12-22-2006 17:16:08




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to John51, 12-22-2006 11:02:18  
I always was led to think that a 4000 was a 4020 engine in a 3020 tractor. At the time, it was an attempt to have a Deere to match up with the 756 which became the 826 about the same time.



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G/MAN

12-22-2006 18:01:08




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to wolfman, 12-22-2006 17:16:08  
That's the most common misconception, and may be partially due to how Deere marketed the 4000 and the potential customers it targeted. For all intents and purposes, a 4020 is 50% more tractor than a 3020 - two more cylinders, about 30% more horsepower, etc. A farmer that had purchased a new 3020 in '64 or '65 and was looking to upgrade some around the time the 4000 came out could make what amounted to a half-step up the 4000 instead of the full step up to a 4020. By buying a 4000, he could keep all of the equipment that was sized to his 3020 and not have to buy all new implements, and he could pull those smaller implements faster in order to get close to the productivity of the 4020 without having to buy a new tractor AND all new implements to pull with it. He might have wanted and needed a new, 6-cylinder tractor but was possibly unable to afford or justify starting over from scratch with a new tractor AND all new equipment. And since the 4000 was lighter than a 4020 and designed to be used with smaller equipment, it could handle the same horsepower as the 4020 and get away with some smaller powertrain components behind the engine without durability being an issue. The 4010-sized components had been proven in the field for years and years, even in tractors with add-on turbos and much more than stock horsepower, so Deere wasn't taking a risk in installing components of that size behind a 4020 engine. That was Deere's thinking behind building the 4000, and no, it certainly wasn't a 3020 with a 4020 engine in it.

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jdeere70

12-22-2006 16:25:11




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to John51, 12-22-2006 11:02:18  
First you said there were no similarities between a 4000 and a 4010. Then you said they have the same axles so which is it? The real answer is the final drives. The 4010 final drive is lighter and geared slightly faster than a 4020. The axles are also 3 1/8 on a 4010 vs. 3 3/8 on a 4020. It`s also very apparent that you do not know the difference in the blocks. Your 4000 block or whole engine has obviously been replaced somewhere along the line. The 4000 rear end is 4020 with the lighter 4010 final drives installed. That`s why it was sold as a "runner not a lugger". We also used to use 4010 finals on 4020 rear ends for tractor pulling because that speeds the gearing up on a 4020. You can live and die by your parts book. That has nothing to do with the way a tractor was built and shipped. It only lists available replacement parts for that model. And by the way have you ever looked anything up in your parts book only to find it subs to something else? Or is completely wrong? Or does not now or has never existed? What I have posted on here is my experience working on and farming with and pulling these three models. If you think I`m wrong so be it. Happy Holidays.

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Mike w J

12-22-2006 18:16:52




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to jdeere70, 12-22-2006 16:25:11  
I have a 69 4000 A 70 4020 And dad has a 70 4000 The engines in 4000s are the same as 4020s When you compare by year The 69 and 70 are exactly the same!! If you compare a 69 or 70 4000 to a 72 4020 They would be differnt . The 4000 has some final drive parts that are unique only to 4000 not 4020 or 4010 or 3020 and some of these parts are no longer made But the complete final drive from a 4020 will bolt right up to a 4000 . The out side end of the axel are same size as 4010 But that is all they have in common They were called a poormans 4020 by alot of people but when dad bought his there was only $900 difference in price .

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low budget

12-23-2006 01:18:02




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to Mike w J, 12-22-2006 18:16:52  
Yep a little cheaper when new. Funny thing (at least around here) is they seem to bring more than a 4020 now. A little collectable maybe.



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John51

12-22-2006 16:57:59




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to jdeere70, 12-22-2006 16:25:11  
Oh really??? I have an original 4000, only 3400 hours, never had ANY engine work done. Bought it practically new from a neighbor back in 1974 and been here it's whole life.



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JD Jim

12-22-2006 16:55:38




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to jdeere70, 12-22-2006 16:25:11  
Dont know about other 4000-4020 owners but know for sure my block is original. Would be happy to hear from other owners of 250 000 serial and up owners as I believe they use the same block. True,the axle size is 3 1/8 vs 3 3/8, not in dispute.



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JD JIm

12-22-2006 15:52:52




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to John51, 12-22-2006 11:02:18  
JD 70 You are wrong. I too have both a 4000 and 4020. I read your post after I made the one above. Not one to argue over trivia but the parts book is the correct answer. There are a lot of mistruths when it comes to 4020-4000 comparisons.



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JD Jim

12-22-2006 15:37:56




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to John51, 12-22-2006 11:02:18  
4000 and 4020 have way more in common than they do with a 4010. The 4020-4000 engines are the same,period, for the later side console models. The only significant difference is the axle size,put two of them side by side in the field working and there is no difference.



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PJBROWN

12-22-2006 15:35:59




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to John51, 12-22-2006 11:02:18  
So could you put a 4020 or 4000 engine ina 4010 and have a 4000???? I know the 4000 have side levers instead of the dash ,but would they be about the same?



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Read the Parts Books

12-22-2006 15:10:54




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to John51, 12-22-2006 11:02:18  
LikeAllot said but do you guy's really think Deere had a bunch of 4010 rearends laying around in the 70's I have some ocean front property in Arizonia to sell.



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G/MAN

12-22-2006 17:10:50




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to Read the Parts Books, 12-22-2006 15:10:54  
I doubt they had many laying around, but they were most certainly still producing all of those 4010 parts to service the 4010s that were in the field, so Deere was certainly capable of supplying 4010 final-drives for installtion on 4000s, but that's not what happened. Here's why - yes, as 4000 is more or less a no-frills, "base model" 4020 equipped with 4010 SIZED rear axles and final-drives. Notice I said SIZED, because that's the similarity. The part numbers don't match each other because there were SIX rear axle lengths available for the 4010 and THREE available for the 4000. The lenths (in inches and millimeters) are right there in the current parts catalogs for each tractor on Deere's PM-Pro parts software. And guess what? Not one axle length available for the 4010 is exactly the same as any length available for the 4000. So there 9 different axles total and 9 different axle lengths, but they were all of the same diameter. As far as that goes, there were even two final-drive housings available for the 4010 AND for the 4000, dependending on AXLE LENGTH, and those numbers don't cross either. The most common mistake made regarding a 4000 powertrain is when somebody claims that they used 3020 final-drives and axles, which is completely incorrect. To make a long story short, mechanically speaking, a 4000 is basically a 4020 from the front of the tractor to the back, with the exception of the final-drvies, which are more SIMILAR to those found on a 4010.

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Read the Parts Book

12-22-2006 19:22:51




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to G/MAN, 12-22-2006 17:10:50  
Thanks for confirming my post. Parts are Parts, size does matter, I'm not a know it all but early John Deere 4-wheel Drives used alot of similar SIZED PARTS are these 4000,4010,4020 2510,4620?, they sometimes will fit but Part #'s are part #'s. When it comes to collecting these they better be correct.



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G/MAN

12-23-2006 10:33:44




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to Read the Parts Book, 12-22-2006 19:22:51  
Only if you're scared of the correct police. In my humble opinion, it's basically ridiculous to expect a tractor that's 40+ years old and that was built to haul manure and pull plows to be 100% original and correct, and in some cases it's impossible to return one to that status. Product Improvement Programs have come out for every tractor ever built by any manufacturer. In most cases, original parts are tossed and new installed. So is the tractor correct? Strictly speaking, no. But was it modified using OEM parts under the direction of the OEM in order to improve its performance and make the customer happy? Yes, and to me, that's more correct than having it be 100% original and not performing up to the same level as an "improved" tractor. Just another one of those objective things that there's no right or wrong answer to, just varying opinions. But I do find it somewhat humorous that the uber-purist members of the correct police seem to forget that tractors were built as tools, not works of art that must be correct down to the markings on the bolt heads.

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billyiron

12-22-2006 11:10:14




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to John51, 12-22-2006 11:02:18  
years ago the JD dealer in town said the 4000 was pretty much left over 4010 rear ends put on a 4020 front,,,billy



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Like Allot

12-22-2006 11:26:38




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 Re: 4020 versus 4000 again in reply to billyiron, 12-22-2006 11:10:14  
Like allot of other people your dealer didn't know what he was talking about either. Study a 4000/4020 parts book and get the facts.



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