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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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PTO vs, BELT

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80kid

08-27-2006 18:14:16




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well guys my dad and i are wondering wether the belt pulley is stronger or the pto is???




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Mike M

08-28-2006 07:44:35




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 Re: PTO vs, BELT in reply to 80kid, 08-27-2006 18:14:16  
Define stronger ? I don't think you are really going to notice much difference in HP figures either way. If you mean "stronger" as not as easy to break stuff then the belt pulley wins as the 540 PTO shaft is weak. I have seen several twisted and even broken off.



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quick answer

08-27-2006 19:10:42




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 Re: PTO vs, BELT in reply to 80kid, 08-27-2006 18:14:16  
If all gear trains were ideal, the horsepower would be exactly the same coming in as coming out. Gear trains would only change speed and torque. Power is a function of force and speed (for shaft power, torque and rpm). Thus, if power from an engine goes through a gearbox to reduce the shaft speed to 540 or so, the power stays the same, but torque increases and spead decreases. Unfortunately, gears are not 100% efficient, so on a two-cyl pto hp should be somewhat less than the belt pulley. This is because the belt pulley on a two cylinder is basically straight off of the crank. However, even while pulling a belt, the 2 cyl will have some parasitic losses because there are drivetrain components that go to the transmission that are always turning, but apples to apples, the belt should show slightly more hp than the pto.

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machinery-man

08-27-2006 19:10:41




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 Re: PTO vs, BELT in reply to 80kid, 08-27-2006 18:14:16  
If you gear the pto to 550 vs 1350 on the engine rpm you would have 2 1/2 times the torque at the pto as the engine...less rpm more torge or if you were at the engine you would have about 40% of the pto torque. Less rpm more torque...what's to understand...most of the implements would not handle direct speed of the crankshaft anyway....so tractors besides green had the belt pulled on a reduction gear...it think the H has a reduction gear....

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machinery-man

08-27-2006 18:26:34




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 Re: PTO vs, BELT in reply to 80kid, 08-27-2006 18:14:16  
Well there"s not much to figure....engine max rpm produces 550 rpm so if you were off the direct shaft of engine your torque would be the percentage of the rpms less what is lost throught the pto drive shaft...ie 2 cylinder tractor 1350 rpm you"d have about 40% torque directly off the crankshaft...



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huh?

08-27-2006 18:59:34




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 Re: PTO vs, BELT in reply to machinery-man, 08-27-2006 18:26:34  
explain that please since it doesn't make any sense!



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B-maniac

08-27-2006 19:58:01




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 Re: PTO vs, BELT in reply to huh?, 08-27-2006 18:59:34  
First of all,unless the poster defines what he means by "STRONGER", I don't know how anyone can really answer his question! If "stronger" means what the dyno would read when hooked to the belt pulley vs the pto,the belt pulley would win because there are parasitic loses from the crank to the pto shaft. Example; a car engine hooked to a dyno will read more hp than the same engine ,in the car,running a chassis dyno.Even though you are going through a trans (1-1 ratio only in high)and the rear end (geared down anywhere from 3:1 to 3.70:1) Dyno's are calibrated to take this into account. If the pto is 540 rpm and the belt is direct off the crank,then the tool being run will see more torque coming from the pto because it is geared down. So if that is what you mean by "stronger" then the pto wins.You multiply the torque comming from the engine through the use of gear reduction. So, are you running a piece of machinery or are you measurimg the tractors' output on a dyno?? The question could be taken either way,but the answers will be opposite.

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