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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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John Deere copyright question

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antiquefarming.com

08-09-2006 21:47:29




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I have created a website dedicated to antique tractors and equipment. On the website I post vintage sales brochures, manuals, and parts catalogs in PDF form for free download. Now I�ve been told John Deere is very protective of their copyright �rightfully so� and I�m not even considering post a John Deere Manual or Parts Catalog, I sure would like to, but, there are plenty of other tractor brands I can work on without copyright issues.

My question is will I get in trouble for posting vintage John Deere brochures and offer them for free download?

I have put a huge amount of time on the site and haven�t even scratched the surface on what I have planned BUT, after a number of people mentioned John Deere�s copyright stance, I�m getting the feeling I should stop buying John Deere brochures and stop working on the John Deere section.

If anyone has any insight, please let me know

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mitchp

08-21-2006 11:40:12




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to antiquefarming.com, 08-09-2006 21:47:29  
i have some manuals and litature i can scan and send you for your website. if you would like to talk with me further you can e-mail me at mitcht at aol dot com



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Leroy

08-11-2006 06:39:32




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to antiquefarming.com, 08-09-2006 21:47:29  
You can't even use there logo in advertising a show featuring John Deere, as a result our show will never feature John Deere again, was the second largest draw of exibits after Cockshutt



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bm3501466

08-10-2006 16:53:44




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to antiquefarming.com, 08-09-2006 21:47:29  
I thought printed materials only have a copyright good for 27 years?????



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petere

08-11-2006 08:15:28




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to bm3501466, 08-10-2006 16:53:44  
It depends on when it was created. On anything published after 1978, the copyright is good for 95 years. Prior to 1978 it was 28 years for something owned by an individual, 67 years for something owned by a corporation.

In 1998, however, Congress passed the Copyright Extension Act which gave another 20 years to existing copyrights.

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antiquefarming.com

08-10-2006 19:24:28




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to bm3501466, 08-10-2006 16:53:44  
I havent heard about the 27 year thing. I did try to dig some info myself.
I found out that anything before 1923 is considered "Public Domain" with zero copyright protection. Looks like Waterloo Boy and early Model D brochures are safe.

Heres another thought, What about when someone writes a book? I have a 7 foot stack of tractor books some are awesome some are crap. Does the author need premission to write a John Deere section?

Thanks again everyone

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petere

08-11-2006 08:37:50




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to antiquefarming.com , 08-10-2006 19:24:28  
You'd probably be best getting professional legal advice, but the short answer is no. You do not need permission to write about them. You can use the text, "John Deere" in a factual manner. A steam show poster could say "Featuring John Deere Tractors". It could not, however, have the leaping deer.

Look at Two-Cylinder or Green Magazine. They are entirely about John Deere, but never use the logo.

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antiquefarming.com

08-10-2006 16:45:46




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to antiquefarming.com, 08-09-2006 21:47:29  
Thanks everyone, Mike M, you make some really good points. You said "this is even a safety issue as a lot of people have no clue on this old stuff "your safety point is exactly what I was thinking. Hand cranks, belt pullies, PTO's and Hand clutches I thought posting the old Operators manuals would really be helpful.

You also mention, "The manuals getting really expensive."

I first got the idea for the website after I bought a manual off of eBay, the cost made buying an original out of the question. So, I purchased a reproduction service manual, to say I was disappointed with the copy is an understatement. All the pictures were to dark to make out I'm sure it was scanned on 10 year old scanner technology..... Now I don�t have a problem with people making money and if I would have receive a clear copy I would have been fine. But what I did get made me want to scan crystal clear copies and offer them for free.

dan_41jdh, Thanks for the link, I read it... Sad to say I'm done putting John Deere brochures up on the site. I sure can�t afford $1000 to ask. What bums me out is a farm history website without John Deere is going to be lame.
Thanks again

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Mike M

08-10-2006 10:29:01




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to antiquefarming.com, 08-09-2006 21:47:29  
I think you have only the best intentions with your site and it would REALLY be GREAT if one could get CHEAP or FREE copies of service and operator manuals. The OEM books ,when available, are getting really really expensive. I just don't want to see you get in trouble is why I mentioned about Deere in peticular being really protective and rightfully so. But I sure don't like their prices on manuals (this is even a safty issue as alot of people have no clue on this old stuff )Afterall all the research and printing was long ago bought and paid for and wrote off. And today with all the cheap ways to make copies I don't know why Deere and others feel they need to charge so much. They ought to give away free parts catalogs as it would more than pay for itself in generated parts sales increases. Alot of people have no clue you can still buy as many parts as you can from Deere.

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petere

08-10-2006 15:05:28




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to Mike M, 08-10-2006 10:29:01  
Deere does not print manuals anymore. A third-party publishing house does it, and they do it "on demand". That is the reason for the prices. The price gets higher for manuals with more pages. The CDs you can usually get much cheaper.

For a lot of the newer tractors, the manuals are free on Deere's web site.



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1936

08-10-2006 05:02:33




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to antiquefarming.com, 08-09-2006 21:47:29  
Untold number of ebay sells are making a very good living off JD copied manuals and anything else the can sell. Find it strange that they have not been clipped by mother deere? Find out why they stepped on your letter head and let the pirates run?



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Mike M

08-10-2006 05:50:33




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to 1936, 08-10-2006 05:02:33  
I imagine it's like all the other scams on ebay. They sell until they get shut down and then start back at it again. Those guys are hiding. Hard to catch. But I'm kinda worried about this guy because he is out in plain sight. Not even trying to make a buck just trying help people out. I'd hate to see him get into trouble.



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Pete/ME

08-10-2006 02:44:54




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to antiquefarming.com, 08-09-2006 21:47:29  
I guess the first thing I'd do is try to contact JD to ask them what their policy is on their copywrited material, it may just be a matter of asking permission. I don't see your site (which by the way is pretty neat) as a commercial venture in the sense that you are directly benefiting from JD material...give 'em a call.



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HTR

08-09-2006 22:26:53




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to antiquefarming.com, 08-09-2006 21:47:29  
On our web site, we used their logo, such as you have on your home page, to link to their home page. With in days we had a letter from the company. They didn't threaten a law suit, but made it clear that we better get their logo off our web site.



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j cook (iowa)

08-10-2006 07:12:03




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to HTR, 08-09-2006 22:26:53  
If they are that adamant, delete their logo, substitute the word "AS*HOLES" tastefully done in green and yellow, and notify them of the change. If they object, demand to know why, making it clear that if you cannot provide free promotion of THEIR OWN WEBSITE, why they don't DESERVE to be refered to by words which are in fact appropriate!



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RalphinWI

08-10-2006 07:23:06




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to j cook (iowa), 08-10-2006 07:12:03  
I suspect that if they do not vigorously defend their copyright they lose all protection. i. e. They don't have a choice.



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dan_41jdh

08-10-2006 15:01:12




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 Re: John Deere copyright question in reply to RalphinWI, 08-10-2006 07:23:06  
Ralph, you are quite correct. Courts have held that if copyright holders don"t actively guard their protected materials, it is assumed the material is abandoned and can be used by the public without consequence. So major companies, especially those like Deere who are quite dependent upon the value of their trademarks and copyrighted literature can be very aggressive about guarding against the unauthorized use of that stuff.

Even something as innocuous as using the image of the "leaping deere" on a personal website used strictly as a hobby, where the person isn"t making any money at all, and might even be adding to Deere"s image, is considered a no-no, and Deere will be quick about pointing that out.

All this may seem rather silly to us who are hobbyists and have no reason to harm Deere & Co. But, because established law has held that if a company ignores a whole bunch of infringement of their copyrights, and then suddenly decides later on to try to claim copyright protection, that it is too late. So, Deere & Co. (and others) tend to be quite protective of their copyrights and trademarks, and for good reason.

By the way, take a look at Deere"s Licensing website. Anybody want to spend $1000, non-refundable, just to apply to Deere to use their trademarks?

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