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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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PLEASE HELP ME!!

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ARS

07-13-2006 18:35:13




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i just discovered something on my '44 jd b that completely ruined my day today... i looked in my radiator cap, and there was no coolent. so i figured it leaked somewhere, but i couldnt find any leak. so i planned fot he worst and drained my oil. theres some good news, NOT! 2 gallons of coolent under my oil in the crank case. so.. i started taking the head off because i figured it was a head gasket. the head gasket looked fine, but i guess it could still probably be the cause. i couldnt see any cracks or anything in the cylinders. so, what could it be if it isnt the head gasket? could it be leaking in throught the gasket between the cylinder and the block, or dont the water jackets go through that?

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H W

07-16-2006 22:27:35




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-13-2006 18:35:13  
ARS I had the same problem on my 46 JD B , it has two tubes in the center push rod holes going through the water jacket , they had pin holes rusted through them . I used threaded rod through the tubes, flat washers , a piece of pipe with a inside dia. larger than than the o. d.of the tubes and pushed the tubes out the back ( block side )side of the head . The holes are bigger on block side of head and that end of tube is bigger to match . I pushed the new tubes in with a coat of permatex on each end to seal in the head . If you are handy , you can do it , the John Deere was built to be repaired by the average owner/operator on the farm . Have fun doing and sharing with other tractor owners . I worked on and with a J.D. B on the farm for many years when I was a kid growing up , now many years later I'm off the farm , but I have three "B"'s that i tried to get Dad to buy as a replacement for the old war time "B". HW

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ARS

07-17-2006 10:58:01




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to H W , 07-16-2006 22:27:35  
what did you use to push them out though? i am sure they are in there really good.



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ARS

07-14-2006 18:40:20




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-13-2006 18:35:13  
hey guys, i tried the grease and sheet metal thing and it worked! it IS leaking through a pin hole in one of the sleeves. the sleeves are steel, which i thought was weird.. because its a war year tractor, so shouldnt they be brass? how much does it generally cost to have them pressed in?



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F-I-T

07-15-2006 07:15:43




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-14-2006 18:40:20  
Shouldn't be over a couple thousand a piece.....

I don't know! Maybe 40-50 bucks. Depends on how busy your machine shop is and how in a rush you tell them you are. Many people install these themselves.



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ARS

07-16-2006 11:19:08




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to F-I-T, 07-15-2006 07:15:43  
how would you go about installing them, how do you press them in.. an arbor press? do you have to seal it with anyhting?



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ARS

07-14-2006 17:18:53




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-13-2006 18:35:13  
wow, thanks for all the information everybody. i was completely stumped as to where it was leaking. my radiator was about half full, so that means i was about 3 gallons low. when i took the upper water pipe off (the one that bolts the the block), i couldnt see any water there either. that would make perfect sence though about the pushrod sleeves, because thats about where the water level was. any more info/advice?

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P Browning

07-14-2006 05:49:15




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-13-2006 18:35:13  
ARS -- From all that has been written and from the nature of commentary, I firmly believe that if I were you, I would tote the head to the nearest machine shop along with pages 10-12 of the Parts Catalog for removal & replacement of the push rod sleeves. I think it would be a much more peaceful way out -- and I doubt the cost would be very high. Besides, if this head hasn't been off the tractor for some time, it would also be an excellent time to have a detailed inspection and "repair as needed" procedure performed on the engine head assembly.

For 39 & 40 tractors (B60,000 thru B95,999) with head casting number B1306R, you will need four (4) AB1284R sleeves running just under $20 each.

For later tractors (B96,000 & up) with head castings numbers of B1784/2501/2871R, you will need two (2) AB2739R sleeves running just over $20 each.

Prices are from the JD Parts Page.

Also share with your machinist the failure mode so that he will realize immediately that the seal of these sleeves into their respective places are part of the engine's water jacket! Enjoy! (PatB)

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ARS

07-17-2006 11:01:49




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to P Browning, 07-14-2006 05:49:15  
could someone give me the websight to buy the sleeves? i cant find them anywhere.



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F-I-T

07-17-2006 16:49:12




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-17-2006 11:01:49  
Go to your JD dealer. The part for up to S/N 95999 is AB1284R, and it takes 4, and the price is $19.84 ea. For 96,000 and up takes two of AB2739R. and they cost $23.29 each.



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ARS

07-17-2006 17:27:42




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to F-I-T, 07-17-2006 16:49:12  
well my serial number is the 96,000 and up one, so its the AB2739R and they cost $23.29 each. thats not bad. where did you get that price from? i dont have a JD dealer that close to me, is there anywhere else that sells them?



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F-I-T

07-20-2006 12:35:24




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-17-2006 17:27:42  
No, it's a JD part as far as I know. You could probably call any dealer and they would ship them to you. I buy IHC and Case parts through the mail all the time.

You might want to get a hold of a parts manual. It would really be helpful.

Frank



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dab

07-14-2006 05:25:51




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-13-2006 18:35:13  
I went back and re-read the original post because I just had a gut feeling I am missing something, after reading it again and again it hit me. If it is the push rod tubes, which I still would replace while head is off WATER HAS TO END UP IN THE OIL!!! Water only has two plases to go, on the floor or in the case. If the push rod tubes leak coolant will follow the push rod passage back the block and fall into case. You asked about the gasket at the back of the block (between block and case) that is only there to stop oil from coming out. The block and head together are a totally sealed off unit as far as water goes. How low of coolant were you?

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dab

07-14-2006 05:14:34




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-13-2006 18:35:13  
Yes they are pressed in; I use an old deep well socket that I have turned down and a piece of threaded rod to pull them. When I put new ones in I coat them with the black permitex just to make sure. Clean them out and look thru them with a flash light and see if there are any nicks or holes. I usually put a straight edge with some permitex on one side and hold with a C-clamp to put water in them. Are they steel or brass? When it comes down to all of this all you are doing is trying to chase a problem though. Even if the leak is somewhere else I would still replace these after an experience I had one time of putting one back together and having the push rod tubes leak. Head gaskets aren�t free no more. If you are VERY CAREFUL you can use a fine file or a stone to LIGHTLY go over the ends on both sides and this will tell you which way the taper is. Biggest thing is take your time, make sure it's clean, and when you think oh hell these aint comin' out that's when they start to move. They have been in there 60 plus years and the side you can't see has got a lot of crap on them. Acording to the parts book it LOOKS like they install from the vavle cover side. Which is the way I remember doing them.

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dab

07-14-2006 01:06:17




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-13-2006 18:35:13  
Pull your valve cover and look down your push rod holes. You might be able to see if they are bad. If you can�t tell pull the head and plug off one side and fill the other with water. Yes they are tapered and I believe the smaller side is on the block side but don't quote me on that. The taper is very small, maybe 50 to 75 thou. If my memory serves me correct. Just ordered some for dads -B- we are tearing apart and they are around $15-$18 a piece. Originally they were brass but during the war the government made them use steel. The replacements you should get are brass. You need your serial number with you as stated before some take two some take four.

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ARS

07-14-2006 04:28:54




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to dab, 07-14-2006 01:06:17  
i already have the head off. what should i plug the holes with to fill the jackets with water? are those sleves pressed in or how are they in there?



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F-I-T

07-14-2006 09:35:54




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-14-2006 04:28:54  
Put a thick layer of grease on the block side of the head, slap some flat sheet metal on there until it sticks, or even some ultra smooth 1/4" Masonite (I have an old piece of Form ica just these occasions), and with the head sitting in the upright position, fill it with water. Watch for water exiting the ports where the pushrods pass.

Ain't no easier than that. And be sure your "Machinist" (lots of folks who own a lathe and a mill claim to be machinists) has installed these tubes before. If he has not, find one who has. You don't need to be paying to teach someone.

Frank

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F-I-T

07-13-2006 19:01:17




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to ARS, 07-13-2006 18:35:13  
ARS:

Your "B" has two if not four push rod tubes that are installed in the head. These can and do perforate after 60 years, and the result is coolant dribbling into the engine. If the head surfaces are not deteriorated, you should be able to install new tubes if this is the problem, and you should be on your way.

Don't panic unless you find a crack. I think you have a decent chance of a simple, relatively inexpensive repair.

You didn't install a new manifold and happen to drill through one or both tubes? It happens all the time.

Frank

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ARS

07-13-2006 20:57:54




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to F-I-T, 07-13-2006 19:01:17  
how can i tell if those tubes are bad or pitted? how do you replace them? are they pressed in? no, i havent put a manifold on it. i never had the motor apart on it at all except for the carb. it always had a slow coolent leak, and i never knew where it was leaking from. but now, it all leaked out in about a month or so, like something just wore through or let go. im completely puzzled...?



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ARS

07-13-2006 19:31:25




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 Re: PLEASE HELP ME!! in reply to F-I-T, 07-13-2006 19:01:17  
how can i tell if those tubes are bad or pitted? how do you replace them? are they pressed in? no, i havent put a manifold on it. i never had the motor apart on it at all except for the carb. it always had a slow coolent leak, and i never knew where it was leaking from. but now, it all leaked out in about a month or so, like something just wore through or let go. im completely puzzled...?



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