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Genesee electronic ignition

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Chuck

11-24-1999 21:24:46




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a man in my community just put a genesee electronic ignition on his 530. It seems to run good, has thin red line of fire. I called the company and they advised it produces 40,000 volts and is supposed to be much better than regular ignition. Does anyone know the pros and cons on this system.




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Doug Ross

10-28-2001 10:32:30




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 Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to Chuck, 11-24-1999 21:24:46  
Looking for a electronic distributor for flat head ford 32-37



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JEFF

11-29-1999 12:22:27




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 Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to Chuck, 11-24-1999 21:24:46  
Anyone installed the genesee on a tractor thats coil used external resistance?? If so how??



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JDGnut

11-25-1999 19:18:02




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 Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to Chuck, 11-24-1999 21:24:46  
I don't really know why more people don't run the ele ignitions in their tractors. I have had mine in the G for about 3 years now and have NEVER had a problem. I always seemed to have a problem with my points and this was the fix I was looking for. Once it is in, you'll never have to pull the cap again. It is a little pricey compared to the points set up, but its worth it. You may have to switch your tractor over to a Negative ground system, but the last I heard they were introducing a positive ground system. (I have not heard much about it.) Oh yea, running the time right on the money, been workin great so far. Well that's about my 2 cent worth too.
JDGnut

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jeff

11-29-1999 12:27:43




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 Re: Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to JDGnut, 11-25-1999 19:18:02  
Doesn't this system still use a roter?? Does the roter & cap ever need to be replaced?? The roter & cap for my 2520 cost $25.00 so reducing or eliminating changing of these would go along ways toward purchase of genesee



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Mike Aylward

11-25-1999 18:09:54




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 Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to Chuck, 11-24-1999 21:24:46  
Guys, I thought I would add my two cents to this discussion. As many of you know I have a 60 that I pull and I installed a Pertronix electronic ignition and matching coil also. I run 386 Autolite plugs set at .040" gap. The electronic set-up is a very good and reliable product. The 60 will start on the first turn nearly every time, and if you remove a spark plug wire it will throw a blue-white spark nearly an inch to metal. The instructions included say it will start at ZERO RPM, and if the engine is in the right place, it would. Simple to install, too. No, I don't sell this product. The whole thing only cost me about $110, and found out afterward that it can be had for even less than that many places. This is the same set-up that Genessee sells. This tractor has pretty high compression, and the EI has been faultless so far. I highly recommend it. My humble opinion. Mike

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Chuck

11-25-1999 08:17:49




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 Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to Chuck, 11-24-1999 21:24:46  
John T. have been around this stuff for years and understand the electronic ignition. my question is why doesn't someone be yelling from the tallest buildings if this is so great...I can see not changing points, but the system in about $180 and this would buy a lifetime of points, I'm just trying to see the advantage or disadvantage from ignition...I've written to Robert Beaver as he sells all this stuff and he doesn't sell electronic ignition....must be a reason mechanically....in my experience working on engines the worst thing you can do is take an electrical problem and make a mechanical problem out of it...burn holes in pistons, excess heat, ie. From my experience with the JD's most of the people don't even properly time the tractors. They set the timing up to supposidly make it quick but this will defeat the engine...these Deers run at 0 idling and about 20 degrees on advance...where does electronic ignition fit in...

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John T

11-26-1999 07:14:51




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 Re: Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to Chuck, 11-25-1999 08:17:49  
Chuck, good discussion goin here. Im not selling elec ignitions and agree economically you can buy a lot of points for the price of an elec ignition. Im just saying engineering wise in a very basic general way here (but still as a pure engineeering fact not just an opinion), a transistor switching (versus bouncing pitting corroding carboning up dwell changing points) and magnetic trigger is far superior and can potentially produce way more spark energy if matched with the proper coil and good ignition control unit. I dont have any now in my tractors but if I were pulling I sure would. Other engineering advantages are a faster switch time which improves the mutual inductive transformer action in a coil. If a guy wants to get real fancy also, the advance can be computer controlled which is far more accurate and repeatable than the weight and spring system. So buy what anyone wants, Im just saying a transistor is a far superior, faster, and undeteriorating way of switching coil current on and off than those points. Enough said but I agree in a farm tractor the cost may never outweigh all the points and condensors one can purchase. Still, although they are better in theory, if one is poorly or cheaply built, the advantages may not be realized one can get from MSD or Jacobs. John T Engineer in Indiana

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chuck

11-25-1999 06:47:53




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 Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to Chuck, 11-24-1999 21:24:46  
ignition, understand all that you're saying...my concern is on the tractors under heavy load...what will this, not withstanding the thought of my 454 with e ignition runs under heavy loads, but the tractor specs are not set up for the e ignition, higher timing? lower timing? I would appear to me that if these kits were SO great the whole antique squad would be RAVING about them. In checking the fire, there was a thin, I mean thin red line of fire, my 520 with regular ignition produces a white to white blueish fire and from an opinion it seemed my fire might even be hotter....cornfused a little in Kentucky....John T. jump back in here....by the way have you tried the digital cameras.....

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John T

11-25-1999 07:35:34




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 Re: Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to chuck, 11-25-1999 06:47:53  
Chuck, your concerns about the timing are legitimate and true. Normally distributors have that mechanical centrifugal advance plate that causes a spark to advance at higher rpm simply because it advances when the points break open. However, if you take the same distributor and on that same advance plate just replace the points with a magnetic pickup coil, the advance would theoretically be the same since it just advances the same plate so the magnet trips the control unit earlier. Now theres another slight timing difference since the old mechanical points are slower in responding and bounce around some as compared to a transistor which switches almost instantaneous. But that small difference can be allowed for when you turn the distributor to achieve the rough in timing. Bottom line is at the relatrively slow JD rpm the advance and advance curve isnt really all that critical. (100 to 1200 rpm not as bad as 100 to 7000 in a racing engine) Now just because an elec ignition can produce higher arcing current at higher voltage doesnt mean all necesarily do. To do so the coil needs to be a higher efficiency higher energy type with improved mutual inductive coupling, plug gaps wider, and a fast switching transistor. If you buy an expensive Jacobs or MSD etc you get all that, but it cant be said just any old cheap elec ignition necessarily puts out a higher energy spark. Finally, the main elec advantage is that with points, every time they make and break they ring and bounce and are slow switching and start pitting and corroding and carboning up building resistance and timing and clearance changes as the cam follower wears down. However, a transistor switching is much faster (makes coils inductive coupling better) and it stays the same regardless of age prctically speaking. So dont get me wrong the points last for years and arent all that bad, but you understand a switching transistor that doesnt pit or corrode or build up carbon resistance or change timing with wear (and you dont need the condensor) is much better than a set of points opening and closing and bouincing up and down. Good Questions I hope the answers are likewise. John T

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John T

11-25-1999 06:25:36




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 Re: genesee electronic ignition in reply to Chuck, 11-24-1999 21:24:46  
Chuck, I have no experience with Genesse but genrally speaking electronic ignitions impart more spark energy (volts times amps) across a wider plug gap yielding more arc current and hot surface area to better ignite the fuel. The voltage is actually a function of the plug gap thickness and the ramp up speed of the voltage in the coils high voltage secondary. It ramps up until its high enough to jump the gap and no more actually, but it has better capability to ramp higher and faster and thats why you can run the wider gap in elec ignitions yielding more arcing current to ignite the fuel. John Nordhoff BSEE,JD aka Ol John T in Indiana

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