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Update: troublshooting, motor testing generator,

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jwk

03-09-2006 04:06:34




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This is a continuation on my 2010D charging problem. (12v pos ground w/ 2 relay reg).

Had a chance to do some troubleshooting last night. Need some analysis on my findings:

Tried a second (good) battery I had laying around. Still didn't charge. Highly doubt battery is the culprit.

On the regulator, had full bat voltage at BAT terminal and LOAD terminal. Ground was good. FIELD wire to gen's Field was continuous. GEN terminal w/ wire to gen's ARM still shows 1.24V no matter what. This wire also goes to the "GEN" dummy light. Other side of this light and gauges have full battery voltage. With the cover off of the reg, I could hear a very, very faint click from the cutout relay when I turn the key on. However, nothing moves. I pushed this relay closed and the "Gen" light goes out, but the gen still doesn't show a charge. I believe this just allows the bat voltage to pass through and turn the light off.

So, decided to do another motor test on the gen. Hooked ground up to FIELD. Then power to ARM and nothing. So I hooked ground up to frame of gen and power to ARM and it spun. Put ground back on FIELD and it refuses to spin. I was trying to get it to speed up, as I've read. This gen was just rebuilt. When I first got it back, did the motor test and it spun great, but I never check to see if it would "speed up".

Do you think there's a problem with the gen's field? It seems this gen refuses to put out any voltage.

thank you!

John

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buckeye al

03-10-2006 15:09:43




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 Re: Update: troublshooting, motor testing generat in reply to jwk, 03-09-2006 04:06:34  
To do that motor test, you MUST have the frame of the generator grounded at all times!

With the field post ALSO grounded the generator should run as a motor and be surprisingly slow! If you remove the ground from the field post (frame still grounded) it should speed up. Re ground the field post with the frame still grounded and it should slow back down.

Take careful note of the speed it runs. When running with the frame and field post both grounded it ought to run quite slowly. It will have pretty good torque too. In either case, if it runs real fast like it's a starter motor, you have a problem in the generator. If it runs but has dead spots and will only start to run if you first give it a spin, you have a problem in the generator.

For the motoring test, the frame of the generator must always be grounded unless you're working on a 24 volter off of a JD. They're different aminals!

One thing nobody mentioned is that the regulator cannot operate or control the generator if it has lost its connection to ground.

One more item I'd suggest.... Try the motor test with the generator still attached to the engine. Remove the drive belt. Remove the field wire from the field post of the generator or regulator. Jumper from the BAT term of the regulator to the GEN term of the regulator. The generator should begin to motor. If it does NOT motor like this, jumper from the battery's non grounded post to the ARM terminal of the generator. If it now motors, you have a harness or connection problem someplace. If it still doesn't motor, leave it connected and then jumper from the frame of the generator to the battery ground post. If it motors this way but not without this ground wire, remove and clean all of the generator mounting brackets, bolts, mount flanges and ears. I have seen corrosion float the generator bracket above ground & cause the persistent charging system failures you describe.

When the generator is motoring (by the connections above) ground the field post. If the generator is good it will slow down and continue to run but slowly. If it doesn't change speed when the FLD terminal is grounded, you have a bad generator. If it DOES change speeds, you probably have a harness, regulator, regulator ground or some other connection problem someplace.

Using a volt meter to test voltages can sometimes give you a false good feeling. You can measure full voltage at a post but still not have current carrying capacity that is worth a hoot. Motoring the generator USING THE TRACTOR'S WIRING HARNESS tests the whole shootin match!

Good luck and post back with your findings.

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Glen in TX

03-09-2006 08:47:25




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 Re: Update: troublshooting, motor testing generat in reply to jwk, 03-09-2006 04:06:34  
John, It does sound like you could have a generator problem. Did you find a wiring diagram for it? Also does it have a Delco generator or possibly a Prestolite / Autolite. Some of those can be a different circuit than a Delco.



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jwk

03-09-2006 09:18:01




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 Re: Update: troublshooting, motor testing generat in reply to Glen in TX, 03-09-2006 08:47:25  
Glen,

I don't have the wiring diagram, but I do believe all the wiring is correct.

The generator is a Delco and it does have "F" and "A" stamped on the case. Couldn't find any markings on the regulator, but I traced the wires to where they should go and all looks correct.

Could I possibly test the generator by running the tractor and having the generator solely hooked up to a battery and ground the FIELD terminal? Just want to be sure it's the problem before questioning the rebuilder.

John

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Glen in TX

03-09-2006 10:51:36




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 Re: Update: troublshooting, motor testing generat in reply to jwk, 03-09-2006 09:18:01  
Check with local JD service manager for wiring diagram in a 2010 shop manuals SM2035 or SM2036 depending on your serial number or SM2509 for 2010 special row crop utility.

A generator quick check from Delco manuals:

Undercharged Battery:
1. Check drive belt tension.
2. Inspect wiring, clean and tighten connections.
3. Connect voltmeter from motor-generator "A" terminal to ground.
4. Ground motor-generator "F" terminal. Leave all wiring leads connnected.
5. Operate engine. If no voltage is obtained, remove generator for further checks.
6. If voltage is obtained, check regulator and wiring further.

Overcharged Battery:
1. Connect voltmeter from generator "A" terminal to ground.
2. Disconnect lead at generator "F" terminal. Leave other wiring leads connected.
3. Operate engine. If voltage is obtained, remove generator for further checks.
4. If no voltage is obtained, check field lead and regulator.

Connect voltmeter at battery and should have 12-14V or 6-8V. Also be sure to polarize the generator each time battery or leads have been disconnected or changed. Delco is a "A" circuit type.

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jwk

03-10-2006 03:38:45




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 Re: Update: troublshooting, motor testing generat in reply to Glen in TX, 03-09-2006 10:51:36  
Well, I decided to do another motor test on the generator just to try and narrow the problem down to the regulator.

The motor test failed. I couldn't even get the generator to turn. Not even sparks at the terminal studs. I also noticed a small squeak coming from the tail end; maybe the brushes or shaft/bushing? The mysterious thing is when I first installed it it spun fine. Then during troubleshooting it was more difficult to get it going. Now it doesn't go at all. Everything looks clean and intact on the inside of it. Guess I need to take it somewhere so they can have a look at it.

John

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Glen in TX

03-10-2006 10:00:55




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 Re: Update: troublshooting, motor testing generat in reply to jwk, 03-10-2006 03:38:45  
Take the regulator in with it too as most places have a way to connect and test it with the regulator wired on it too.



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