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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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My Bubble was busted

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B Duncan

09-05-2005 18:44:04




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Hi group.

Well after months of burning the midnight oil and bothering you guys on this site My dad and I finally got the 1939 D to fire this past friday. We double checked the timing and we pulled it off with another tractor and lo and behold after about a 10 foot pull the engine came to life. We immediatley shut it down and filled the radiator with water and went to start it again. 3 feet later the engine was running and idling smoothly. Even though I was told by Mr. Glen in Texas that the flywheel was from a 30 model and mine is a 39 there was no vibration or any extra ordinary shaking. It did not smoke or puff which made me feel a lot better about this since I have not heard this thing run until now. With this in mind I idled the tractor back into the shed under its own power and ran the engine and shut off the 3-way and the sediment bowl and the engine died a few seconds later. There was a tractor show this past weekend and I attended it so I left the tractor alone for a few days. Tonight I went to work on the brake and noticed a huge puddle of a gray fluid under the oil pump housing gasket. The oil has water it it. I immediatley drained all the water out of the block and there was a film in the water. Now I do not know what to do. This tractor was supposed to be running when it arrived and it wasnt. It has taken me 8 months of my spare time and money to get to this point only to find out that either the block is cracked or it has a leaky gasket somewhere. I am in a quandry as to what to do. This is my 1st 2-cyl tractor and I am fairly new to the hobby. Are D blocks expensive and I can only imagine whow much they weigh? Are sleeves available? Im not even sure if I want to try to tear it down even though it is the 18 styled D made because I dont really have the means to do so. If you guys have any suggestions I am more that willing to listen. At this point I am open to all options. Thanks again to listening to another of my long winded posts

Sincerely
Brad D

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Bill(Wis)

09-06-2005 18:20:23




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to B Duncan, 09-05-2005 18:44:04  
Some of the posts pointed out to not start the engine without water. While that is a good idea I'm here to tell you that farmers around here used to start their 30's era A's every day in the winter and haul out the manure with no water. No ethylene glycol in those days and alcohol in non- pressurized radiators boiled too soon. A lot of those old A's are still running.



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Glen in TX

09-06-2005 10:43:14




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to B Duncan, 09-05-2005 18:44:04  
Brad, Hate to hear you still got problems with the D. Sounds like the others gave you lots of good ways or help find out what is leaking. It might seal itself up more in time too. I started a 35 D without water once just to move it out the barn quick and later put water in and sure enough had leaks that wouldn't never soak over or quit and had to pull the head gasket. It had just been done 2 years before that. Just not a good idea I learned to run without any water. You can't buy one of these tractors this old and expect nothing to be wrong or go wrong. It might just be the head gasket or a little seepage and nothing else. On the flywheel issue sounds like you got away with it maybe working for now. I just know JD didn't make 4 cranks and 5 flywheels that matched up just because they had nothing else to do? Some guys with early Ds have had some vibration issues by using later flywheels on early Ds. Never heard of anyone having a early flywheel on a later D though till yours. Some 28 Ds had bad cranks and several of them broke in half. We restored a 28 that was like that and I've seen and heard of a few more since then. I'm not saying yours will break in half or vibrate but just got into the flywheels because of what I knew about the early Ds having some problems. We have changed out several engines parts from styled Ds to the 31-38 Ds and never had any problems but the early ones are different.

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buickanddeere

09-06-2005 07:13:43




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to B Duncan, 09-05-2005 18:44:04  
Make up a "leakdown" tester using an old spark plug with an air fitting brazed to it. With the piston at BDC, apply air pressure and listen at the rad for hissing/bubbling.



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F-I-T

09-06-2005 06:55:39




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to B Duncan, 09-05-2005 18:44:04  
Brad:

A quick check I use on one that I imagine I will be tearing down, but would just like to check for leaks is to fill it with clear water, let the oil drain plug out, and put a bucket under it. Let gravity do the rest for a day while you look it over. I have even put some food coloring in the radiator before so that I would not be fooled by any other water that might be trapped under a valve cover or elsewhere.

You just never know if you might not have a water injection valve leaking into the carburetor and into an intake valve. The oil film in the coolant would concern me, except for the fact that a few drops of oil can find its way into the radiator over the years, and that can make a lot of oil film, so a good detergent in the water, then flush and drain, and refill for the leak check might be in order.

Frank

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Bob-Wyo

09-06-2005 06:29:26




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to B Duncan, 09-05-2005 18:44:04  
Brad I would do as Myrl and Tony said first, if you don't see any water coming out anywhere I'm thinking you may have had some water trapped somewhere in the engine, push rod channels/around the oil filter housing, etc, it don't take much water to do this, may be even worth another 3 gallon oil/filter change. Had this happen to me on a 38, just knew it was clean, even blew out the crankcase with solvent and air dryied it, but as soon as I started it up had water vapor coming out every where, after 2 oil changes it has been fine for 2 years and it pulls every other weekend.
Hopeing this is all it is Brad, you have had enough bad luck, time for some good luck.
don't worry about bothering any one just post what you find, we just can't have a non running D.
Bob

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Mike M

09-06-2005 05:06:13




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to B Duncan, 09-05-2005 18:44:04  
While it's not good to run any engine without coolant I am betting whatever problem you have was there before you bought it.



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F-I-T

09-06-2005 06:45:34




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to Mike M, 09-06-2005 05:06:13  
Mike:

I think so, too. Those "D"s have so much cast iron mass, it would take a while on low power to overheat the cast. Not that's a good idea to run one without water, but hey, we all did it every spring. Pull the old girl out of the barn with a tow tractor, get it to start, and head for the hose in road gear!

Frank



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Myrl

09-06-2005 04:27:19




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to B Duncan, 09-05-2005 18:44:04  
I dont want to make you feel any worse but never NEVER start an engine without water then put water in. It only takes seconds to heat the cyl head way up and then cold water will crack it when it hits the hot cast. Sometimes you can see where water is coming from by filling it back up letting it set for a day then removing crankcase cover and looking for water tracksin the back of cylinders or oil return passage.

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Tony W

09-06-2005 05:53:42




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to Myrl, 09-06-2005 04:27:19  
I would pull the valve cover and see if the water is coming from that area and pull the rod cover and look down in there and look also. By doing this it may help locate where and what may have to come off. Get those covers off and try to put some pressure in the rad and it will push the water out of the leak. Are you getting any water out of the petcocks on turn over?
Hope it is a easy repair
Best of luck

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B Duncan

09-06-2005 07:07:26




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 Re: My Bubble was busted in reply to Tony W, 09-06-2005 05:53:42  
Thanks guys for the words of encouragement and advice. While it was running there was no sign of coolant entering the exhaust the compression reliefs did not have water coming out. I had the crankcase cover off when I flushed the engine so I will look there. I will take the valve cover off also and look again as well as loosen the drain plugs to see what starts to come out. I will post back as what I find. Thanks again
Brad

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