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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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JD D Timing

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B Duncan

08-30-2005 09:25:27




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Hi group,
Once again I am relying on yall to help me out of a pinch. I am trying to set the timing on a D with a Splitdorf mag. We thought it was right but the way the tractor backfired after a few pulls on the flywheel makes me think otherwise. It tried to start on every pull but on the 4th or 5th it backfired through the exhaust and sounded like a cannon had fired. I followed the directions in the I&T book as well as what my operator manual shows. This tractor does not have a mark showing L.H impulse on the flywheel. It says L.H spark retard and L.H. exhaust open. I lined top dead center up and the mark on the block with the flywheel in the l.h spark retard mark. The driving lugs on the magneto was not horizontal. They are about 35 deg. I installed the mag following the rest of the steps correctly except for the position being correct. When the mag impulses the l.h. spark retard mark on the flywheel is 45 deg. off of the mark on the block. With this setup will it run? We have never heard this tractor run, and by the looks of it the governor nor the flywheel have never been into. but thats an assumption. Sorry to be long but We have run out of ideas and do not know where to look for answers. Thanks in advance for all the help and advice.

Thanks again
Brad D

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LWD

08-31-2005 00:40:51




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to B Duncan, 08-30-2005 09:25:27  
you may have some rust in the carb.



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Glen in TX

08-30-2005 12:25:47




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to B Duncan, 08-30-2005 09:25:27  
Brad, The markings "L.H. Retard Spark" tell me you have a D 1930 or earlier. Timing mag for D #30400-109943:

1. Have the mag secure to engine mounting and need 1/32" clearance between mag drive and float coupling.

2. Loosen the 2 clamps on mag engine drive flange to allowing mag to turn freely.

3. Turn engine in direction it runs to compression stroke on LH cylinder (flywheel side) with mark on flywheel "L.H. Ret. Spk." in line with the arrow or mark on cover.

4. Remove breaker cover and dist. cap on mag.

5. Set spark lever clear back (fully retarded spark).

6. Turn magneto same direction as flywheel runs until brass segment on distributor disc is in upper right hand corner and breaker points are just beginning to open.

7. Tighten 2 bolts on mag drive flange.

8. Spark plug wire from forward mag terminal goes to LH spark plug and rear one to RH spark plug.

9. Then check the impulse trip by turning flywheel back 1/2 turn and if mag has manual impulse trip you will have to set it to trip. Then rotate engine slowly forward and impulse should trip or click as mark on flywheel lines up with mark on cover and LH spark plug should fire. If not loosen drive flange bolts and if trip is early turn magneto opposite direction engine runs. If late turn mag same direction as engine runs and recheck until you get mark to line up.

If that doesn't get you in time then you could have mag impulse problems or need to time the camshaft properly. Good luck.

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JGC

08-30-2005 11:54:22




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to B Duncan, 08-30-2005 09:25:27  
Brad,
Duane knows these really well so he will be able to help. My unstyled "D" has a WICO mag (don't think it's the correct mag) so the set-up is different, but regardless of markings, etc, it's got to snap at TDC. They hand-start really easily once everything is set correctly - carb, mag, valve timing, plug gap, etc. It's really cool to be able to hand-start these beasts!

Best of Luck,
Jon

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Duane Larson

08-30-2005 10:44:47




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to B Duncan, 08-30-2005 09:25:27  
Brad,
It sounds like you have a D with an old base mount Splitdorf Aero magneto with manual advance/retard. If that is the case, the owners manual for the early D gives proper instructions. Post back and let us know what you have - year or s/n of D and we'll go from there.



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B Duncan

08-30-2005 12:02:17




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to Duane Larson, 08-30-2005 10:44:47  
Thanks for the quick response guys. The tractor is a 1939. The serial is 143818, and the mag is not a base mount. It has been rebuilt and has a nice blue spark at the plug. The carb has been rebuilt also. It did not take much pulling of the flywheel to get it to pop. I just have to get all these things in time.

Thanks again
Brad Duncan



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Glen in TX

08-30-2005 20:19:44




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to B Duncan, 08-30-2005 12:02:17  
Brad and Duane, I did some looking at flywheels this afternoon and the D1053R flywheel has "LH Retard Spark" by mark and the mark is not quite in line with the web slots and holes. On a D1970R flywheel which is correct for a 39 D the mark is moved some and almost in line with the web slots and holes and marked "L H Impulse".

Brad, you also want to make sure the tall spline groove in flyweel lines up with the pin on crankshaft. Also should be some V marks on clutch drive plate and crank to line those up.

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Duane Larson

08-30-2005 16:25:43




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to B Duncan, 08-30-2005 12:02:17  
Brad,
The following may help in timing your ES mag on your D. It is a bit different than the base mount Splitdorf - that is why I asked. It sounds like you have a flywheel issue also, but the "impulse" is the important part, and that should line up with the mark on the case when the magneto impulses.

The ES CD spec 0010 magneto does not provide a spark for each impulse click - it only provides a spark for the compression stroke of each cylinder. Wico magnetos, for example, provide a spark for each impulse click - that amounts to providing a spark on the exhaust stroke also. The ES series is click (spark), click (spark), click (nothing), click (nothing), and this cycle repeats itself. So, lay your spark plugs where you can see them spark, connect them to the magneto and rotate your magneto enough times that you can predict when the right hand terminal on the magneto is going to spark, followed by a spark from the left hand terminal. Then put your thumb over the flywheel side cylinder (#1) and determine the compression stroke - you will feel a rush of air as the piston moves forward. When you are at the top of the compression stroke (flywheel will have "LH Impulse" lined up with mark on transmission case), rotate the magneto drive cup such that it will produce a spark at the right hand terminal, put the magneto on the tractor and connect the right hand wire to the flywheel side plug. Then rotate the flywheel 1/2 turn more (bringing #2 piston up on compression) and you should see a spark at the pulley side. As a test, rotating through two more impulse clicks will produce no spark, then you should be back at piston #1 coming up on compression and the magneto ready to fire it. Once you confirm this operation, put the plugs back in the tractor and the magneto should be providing spark to the proper plug. At that point you can follow the instructions about rotating the magneto until it impulses when the mark on the flywheel aligns with the mark on the case.

Kind of a long explanation, but after you understand that 1) you don't get a spark every click, 2) the magneto produces a spark at the right hand terminal, then the left hand terminal, and 3) you must have a spark at #1 (flywheel side) on compression, followed by a spark at #2 (pulley side) on compression, you will get it figured out.

I figure since these magnetos were made during the depression, they conserved everything back then, including sparks.

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Glen in TX

08-30-2005 12:41:56




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to B Duncan, 08-30-2005 12:02:17  
Now he tells me. lol. Brad, I just posted you the WRONG directions. For starters your 1939 with flange mount shouldn't have that kind of marking "LH RET SPK" on flywheel?? Sounds like you have a early D flywheel D33R, D1053R or D1606R? It should have "L.H. Impulse" mark on a D1970R flywheel or D3100R electric start flywheel. The cast # is on back side. All Ds 109944 up used that flywheel. The counter balance area in flywheels is somewhat different and you to get the right one if it's wrong. Then your other timing directions will work with flange mount mag and LH Impulse marking. If not then you still need to check the cam timing also.

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Johan

08-30-2005 10:25:24




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to B Duncan, 08-30-2005 09:25:27  
Hi, when I tried to start my D for the first time I had the same backfiring, so loud, that I thought surely something blew up. It is now four years ago, so I can not remember what I did, other than that I pull started it after getting tired in the arms and hands. Somebody is going to put you right, but you must check that you have the spark on the LH compression stroke. Also my Splitdorf magneto is tilted which might put the impulse snap closer to the mark. It will come right in the end. Have fun!

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B Duncan

08-30-2005 18:31:39




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to Johan, 08-30-2005 10:25:24  
...Wow thanks guys for the wealth of knowledge. I worked on the mag a little this afternoon and got the tractor to run for about 3 or 4 flywheel turns before shutting off. It did not backfire or snap the flywheel back while we were pulling on it. I will try to get the clutch back on tommorrow afternoon and then maybe pull it with another tractor to get it running and then tweak the carb and mag....On the flywheel issue would this throw the engine out of balance? Also would this mean do I have and earlier crank and belt pulley, Because We still have not been able to get the dust shield to fit. But thanks again you guys are a life saver.

Sincerely
Brad D

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Glen in TX

08-30-2005 20:39:39




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 Re: JD D Timing in reply to B Duncan, 08-30-2005 18:31:39  
Brad, You need to have a D1970R hand crank flywheel or D3100R electric start flywheel on your 39 D which should have a D1750R crankshaft. Those are casting numbers and found on back side of flywheel. Check the number on yours. The Ds used 4 different crankshafts and five different flywheels over the years. The 5th flywheel being the one for electric start with ring gear. The flywheels counter weight area was different and the flywheel and clutch drive needs to be the proper ones matched to the crankshaft for balance. You probably have the correct clutch parts or they wouldn't fit well at all but there are V marks that need to line up on that side also. You can check a parts book or get some more numbers from us if you have clutch parts issues as well.

As for the dust shield it has oversized holes to allow lining it up. The flat side goes to front to clear pulley brake. Originally they used bolts with holes for wiring them and lead washers under the bolts to allow for alignment and to then hold it tight. Use a gasket or sealer under the shield and drilled bolts for safety wiring and lead or copper washers or good lock washers. Leave the bolts loose to allow it to move and align it by measuring the hole evenly from the crank or by putting the pulley on and aligning it and then tightening the bolts and wiring them.

I'm glad Duane got the Splitdorf explained. Good luck with it. Sounds like you're almost there.

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