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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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1941 B Fires on open cylinder

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Andrew Klein

03-28-2005 11:00:34




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I am a young restorer,19 years old, with a 41' B that explodes out the muffler on the 3rd stroke when hand cranking.The mag is brand new with very hot spark and the timing is set with LH impulse on the top lead of the cap. I put new piston rings in it, but it dosn't have the greatest compression (45-50psi).The carb is rebuilt with a new float,jet,pin and bushings. Overall the tractor will run ok if it fires up, but I havent been able to start it with out blowing my ears out. Is it too much gas? or the governer in the wrong gear mesh? I Dont know? more info avalible upon request.

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buckeye al

03-28-2005 13:51:59




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 Re: 1941 B Fires on open cylinder in reply to Andrew Klein, 03-28-2005 11:00:34  
If the impulse trips as the LH impulse timing marks meet, the governor is likely on the tractor correctly and the mag is on the governor correctly. You say you have a very hot spark out of the mag's top terminal when the LH impulse marks line up. Good so far. Are you certain the wire you're putting in the top hole of the cap is going to the left (flywheel side) spark plug? I have seen wires cross each other as they enter the plug wire conduit so that the one you think is left is actually right & vice versa. Another thing is plugs will sometimes foul and not spark while under compression but will spark while the valves are open. Both of these two conditions will give you the "kaboom report" you mention. I would make sure the left plug receives the spark from the top terminal when the flywheel mark lines up with the main case mark. If the plugs are good & doing their job, it sounds like it should go. Follow new ring break in rules after that.

Good luck.

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John T

03-28-2005 13:31:42




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 Re: 1941 B Fires on open cylinder in reply to Andrew Klein, 03-28-2005 11:00:34  
Andrew: Im thinking similar to Duane, you could have (B) a valve problem ORRRRR RRR (A) the mag is out of time!!!!! HOWEVER that part about "it will run if it fires up" kinda rules out a major mag problem like wires reversed etc but I already typed it all before I re read the question lol, but its good info anyway which may help in the future. Im outa here, gonan be late for an auction,,,,, ,,,,, ,,

(A) I wish we knew what mag you have, since as Duane said the direct drive non reduction gear mags like the Wico C and X fire on BOTH TDC's, the Compression and Exhaust, while the reduction gear drive 1/2 speed mags like the Wico AP and some of the Fairbanks Morse only fire on the Compression stroke TDC. On the Wico C and X if the wires are reversed she may pop n bang n backfire and/or kick the flywheels back, but a simple wire reversal makes them run. NOT so on a reduction gear mag. If out of time or wires are reversed, she could pop n bang n backfire etc etc which a wire reversal will NOT fix.

Pull the plugs for easy flywheel cranking and:::::::::: Bring the left piston up to TDC on its Compression Stroke. That will be when shes building compression/presure out the plug hole, cuz if on the Exhaust stroke, it wont cuz the exhaust valve is open ::::::::: Then when coming up on the Left Cylinders Compression (NOT Exhaust) stroke, when the Flywheels Left Hand Impulse (LHI) mark passes by the flat mark on the tractors side at 3 o clock, the mag snaps AND FIRES THE PLUG GOING TO THE LEFT CYLINDER. They were originally wired top cap tower to left on the Wico's::::::::: Next, see if 180 of flywheel rotation later (Flywheels LHI at 9 o clock) she snaps again and the plug wire to the right cylinder fires????? ??? SHE HAS TO DO THAT TO RUN REGARDLESS WHAT MAG IT HAS!!!!! !!!!! !!

Regardless if a direct or reduction gear mag, it will snap n fire at the Left then 180 degrees later the Right cylinders Compression TDC, but the reduction mags will NOT fire on the Exhaust TDC's. Thats one way to tell the difference. The reason for telling all this is so you can tell what type of mag you have and to verify shes firing the correct cylinder at the correct TDC. If its direct it makes no difference (fires at BOTH) but you still need the correct wire to the correct cylinder,,,,, while in the reduction mags it has to be the correct cylinder and at the right time and a wire reversal will NOT fix it.

OTHER TIMING ISSUES If the flywheels on the correct crankshaft spline??? and the crank to cam and cam to governor gears are ALLLLL in time??? at the left cylinders TDC the Flywheels LHI should be at 3 o clock and the female drive slot in the governor shaft (where mag fits) should be flat horizontal fore n aft.

Make sure the left cylinders plug wire is firing on its compression stroke TDC (LHI passes by 3 o clock) and the right cylinders plug fires 180 later when its on its Compresion TDC (Rememebr, the Wico C and X will repeat that even on the Exhaust TDC's), and if thats so Im no longer suspecting a mag problem REGARDLESS of what mag you have.

(B) Remove the valve covers and insure ALL valves open n close and there is at least some valve lash. Disconnect the plug wires so she dont fire and bring the left cylinder up to TDC on its compression stroke and stop near TDC and LISTEN CAREFULLY for presure escaping out the carb (bad intake valve) or out the Exhaust pipe (bad Exhaust valve) or the ctrankcase (ring blow by). Thats not as good as a compression or leak down test Duane mentioned, but the physical observation to insure the valves at least opening n closing and theres some lash coupled with the listening test ought to give you some idea of a problem if the mags timing checks out okay.

Thats all I have to say about that, Im headed for an auction, let us know what you find, good luck n God Bless

John T

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Duane Larson

03-28-2005 12:40:15




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 Re: 1941 B Fires on open cylinder in reply to Andrew Klein, 03-28-2005 11:00:34  
Andrew,
First, a big welcome to the world of JD collecting! I hope you grow to enjoy it as much as I have over the years.

It sounds like you may have a leaking exhaust valve, or wrong valve timing. If you have a Wico C or XH magneto (look at the tag on the mag) it produces a spark on the exhaust stroke as well as the compression stroke, and fuel is getting ignited on the exhaust stroke, producing the explosion you hear. Since your compression is low, you might do a blow-down test (do an archive search here on blow down test, it has been discussed a lot here) - that will tell you if an exhaust valve is leaking. You might also pull the valve cover and see if the exhaust valve begins to open when the mark on the flywheel indicates it should. If not, some valve adjustment is required.
Post back and let us know what you find, and we'll go from there.

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