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A not running right

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jugs

03-09-2005 10:14:19

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I am trying to get an A running better for a friend. Absolutely can't get it to idle smooth. Sounds like it has a plug fouled, but it is not the plug. Tried new wires, it is not. Tried another GOOD carb, it is not. cleaned tank, fresh gas, it is not. Has 125 compression both cylinders. Had dist on it, put on a mag, it is not. Checked tappet clearance, is correct. I am not new to this...what am I missing???? Sprayed starting fluid around intake...nothing. Please help! Thanks.

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Dave Brennan

03-11-2005 06:35:23

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:14:19

I had a 1950 A I worked on a while ago and ended up completely restoring for a friend. It had a similar problem. Ran on one cylinder when it idled. Had the head sent out and checked, ended up that the head had hairline cracks in the valve seats. Got a good head and the problem was solved. That part of it anyway.

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1945 A

03-10-2005 10:55:14

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:14:19

Don't know, but when you said you changed the timing, and that helped a little, I'm wondering if something may have caused the timing to change. Is the static timing correct? (flywheel timing mark/magneto drive slot correct?0
Maybe there's a tooth, or teeth missing in the governor drive gear, or the governor drive gear has come loose???

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buickanddeere

03-10-2005 09:08:28

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:14:19

Right side cylinder misisng, normal at idle.

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g pop

03-09-2005 17:39:05

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:14:19

put a dial indictator on the rocker arms ,one of the cam lobes or a follower could be worn just enough to cause the problem.

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BushogPapa

03-09-2005 17:28:49

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:14:19

You might try running a jumper wire to the Dist to see if that makes a difference...maybe there is an intermittant short in the wire leading from the ignition switch... Well..IC a Mag didn't help, but it may be worth a try...

125 is Good Compression...Valves are set a .022.."Cold" or .020 "Hot"..???? If it was a worn valve guide, I don't think you would have a Compression test that good.. You have good oil-flow to the rocker arms..?? Have you drained the carb bowl, and looked to see if the fuel is Clean..?? Are you SURE the Distributor Cap is good, DRY..(and Clean)..??? New points can be "Bad", too...or a "New" Condenser can be bad...

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Dave Brennan

03-09-2005 17:13:37

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:14:19

Check the Distributor shaft for play, If the shaft and bushings are worn the gap between the points will change and will cause uneven fireing. Other than that, it will proble be a valve.

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Jason Z in MO

03-09-2005 11:12:55

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:14:19

Did you inspect the plugs or replace them?

I have a 520 which started to miss on #1. I tried all sorts of things. Of course I checked the plugs first. It would fire great when removed, in open air. I went through the entire ignition system but couldn't find a problem. After a lot of work I finally went back to the plugs. Swapped plugs between #1 and #2. The problem was now on #2.

I learned that a spark plug visual inspection isn't enough.

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jugs

03-09-2005 11:21:31

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Re: A not running right in reply to Jason Z in MO, 03-09-2005 11:12:55

Oh!!!! I REPLACED them right off the bat. That's why I'm here, this one has me stumped!

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DENNIS ANDRES

03-09-2005 16:36:52

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 11:21:31

I'm just curious.Are you using Champion plugs?And was the old plugs Champion plugs? I have had nothing but trouble with them. Try the Autolite equalivant of a D-21 if you have Champions in the tractor. They will make the tractor run like the carb is flooding or like it is mis firing.

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Jason Z in MO

03-09-2005 12:25:14

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 11:21:31

Is it missing on one of both cylinders?

Would a worn governor housing cause this problem? If the mag / dist. drive coupling was floating around because of a worn housing or worn bearings the timing could be all over the place. Worn timing gears would do the same thing.

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Mike M

03-09-2005 10:53:23

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:14:19

Try putting it under a load as these will miss every once in awhile while idling. That's why they went to a 2 bbl. carb. set up.

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jugs

03-09-2005 10:56:31

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Re: A not running right in reply to Mike M, 03-09-2005 10:53:23

No, it misses then too. That's why I'm stumped on this one! Something is not right but cannot find it. I have rebuilt many 2 cyl. and also pull them. This one is a pain in the butt!

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Mike M

03-09-2005 11:53:22

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:56:31

My first thought was that you may be someone who was new to these tractors and wondered why thier A won't run like a 630. Ok ,I know better now.I had a bad experience from a local doing this. My second thought since as it seems you have tried everything else is to check the cam bearings for wear letting it jump around. The left hand one is usually the worst shape,but is also the easiest to replace. I would pull off the left hand bearing race,two bolt cover below governor housing and behind flywheel and see if it is chewed up.

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jugs

03-09-2005 13:26:18

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Re: A not running right in reply to Mike M, 03-09-2005 11:53:22

Mike, pulled head off, it is all black from carbon. Plugs get black quickly also. Changed timing and it ran a little better but still a miss. Will give those cam bearings a look.

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Mike M

03-10-2005 06:50:10

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 13:26:18

If you are also getting alot of black carbon can you adjust your carb. leaner ? Maybe also someone put on the wrong carb. or reworked it for pulling and messed it up.Did you try another carb. yet ?

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jugs

03-10-2005 09:37:40

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Re: A not running right in reply to Mike M, 03-10-2005 06:50:10

I've done all that! Like I said...I am not new to this...Tried three different carbs, two have just been rebuilt, so it's not that. Everyone has been very kind in offering opinions, but we need to get past all the nickel and dime stuff it could be. I figure if it's not that the valves are not seating properly, then I will yank the cam. If you only knew ALL the piddly stuff I have checked...at least 4 times over. Ever had one of these? Yhanks.

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Mike M

03-10-2005 12:24:04

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-10-2005 09:37:40

I went back and reread your original post after I wrote about the carb. I then did see that you have tried this,sorry to add to the confusion. You ask if I ever had one of these ? I wish it was only just one ! LOL I still think a cam bearing check will be simple and worthwhile. I once had a fellow bring me a late model AR. He said he tried everything to get it to run right and had several people look at it with no luck.I said bring it over as I never found one yet I couldn't make run (given enough time and money)got this thing running pretty good put it on the dyno ran good but touch the steering wheel (added on power steering)or the hydraulics,factory live pump,and one cylinder would cut out.Turns out putting a load on the governor/cam caused the cam to move because of a bad left hand bearing.Fixed just the left side and it was fine. Only did the left because from past experience tearing down parts tractors the left cam bearings were usually bad and the rights don't seem to get as bad.And the left is easy to change and the right is not.The left one was enough to cure the problem fixed it up cheap and the guy was very happy.I here alot of talk about cams being ground wrong when new and need reground. This could be I don't know ? But I do know that I have never had to change out a 2 cyl. cam to make one run good and have only saw one with the lobes visably worn off and it was a diesel and only on the injector lobes. I will say that camshafts are not a weakness in JD 2 cyl's. Unlike a small block Chevy---they do have bad cams.

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Jugs

03-10-2005 15:55:02

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Re: A not running right in reply to Mike M, 03-10-2005 12:24:04

Mike, I started to pull the cam cover off, but hit the plug for main bearing bolt, so quit. Had just reinstalled the flywheel tight. (Had taken it off to fix another problem and reinstalled it very tight) But just may have to remove it again. I don't have the "proper" tool to reach in to get the plug out. Already tried. But I WILL check that . Thanks. Are you going to Sigourney? I plan on it also trying to hit Columbia.

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Mike M

03-10-2005 18:23:09

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Re: A not running right in reply to Jugs, 03-10-2005 15:55:02

I'm not going anywhere. Post back and let me know what you find. I got some old square sockets that work good on those plugs,try to find some 8 point sockets they also work. If you have to pull that bearing the flywheel will need to come off. I cut the brg. cage off and hooked a KD power steering pulley/ chrysler alt. bearing puller on the outer lip and pulled it right off. Weld the inner race and it will fall out. Good Luck !

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John T

03-09-2005 10:48:53

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 10:14:19

Darn Jugs, you done already tried all the usual suspects I had in mind lol. So I will just ask a few questions n maybe myself or someone smarter than me can finger her out.

When you say it will not idle smooth, does it surge and vary in RPM,,,,, ,,,or does it vibrate,,,,, ,,or does it cough or sputter???

Does any choking or carb idle adjustments make it any better at all??

If you pulled the plug wires n cranked her is there a good blue spark from each plug wire end to within 1/8 to 1/4 inch from the block?? or is one weaker maybe??? Does adjusting the timing make any difference, the only way to see when shes run firign is via a timing light.

If you removed the final throttle rod from the governor to the carb, is it possible to make her idle at a smooth steady RPM??? (If so maybe more a governor than a carb problem)

That starter fluid or an unlit propane torch lie you already tried, especially at the carb gasket and its throttle shaft bushings and manifold base, ought to have found any vacuum leaks.

If its NOT carb or ignition (you SURE both plugs good, right?) I might still suspect a burned valve which isnt bad enough to show up on a compression check absent a leak down test. If you pull her up on compression right at TDC n stop her do you hear any tell tale leakage at the carb (intake) or out the stack (exhaust) or teh crankcase blow by rings)

Got me fer now at least, maybe with some of my questions answered someone can help you more.

John T

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jugs

03-09-2005 11:00:53

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Re: A not running right in reply to John T, 03-09-2005 10:48:53

John, when I shut it off, there is smoke slowly coming out of end of carb where air pipe attaches. I too suspect a valve proble. Guy said he put new pistons in several years ago, but didn't do much to the head. Never used tractor much cause it wouldn't run right.

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Jerry Seifert

03-09-2005 17:24:27

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 11:00:53

Just a simple thought but since it is running rich, could the air breather not be clean enough because of wasp nests and such especially since it has sit a lot? I had that trouble before. Had to take off the oil bath and take the filter canister off, clean the whole intake pipe and filter of mud and goop. Does it run better with the air pipe off the carb?

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jugs

03-09-2005 19:16:29

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Re: A not running right in reply to Jerry Seifert, 03-09-2005 17:24:27

Nope, no improvement. Governor shaft is good, no play. I am suspecting a valve problem. Someone may have ground the valves to an incorrect angle or something. Will have it checked. Thanks for all the ideas, have checked them all but still a problem. If a valve jov doesn't solve it then I will dive into the cam and have it checked and reground.

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gary nutt

03-20-2005 20:39:29

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Re: A not running right in reply to jugs, 03-09-2005 19:16:29

had same problem it is in carb take apart use small wire or small bit clean all holes in carb you will probably find one pluged

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