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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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plug fouling blues

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Ken C.

02-07-2005 17:29:14




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I have a G and an A, and both foul the right plug every time there run. If your lucky you can get about twenty minutes on the G before it fouls, and the A will usually run till you kill it and then then right plug will have to be changed before restart. I have probably bought a truck load of plugs, all kinds none seem to be any better. They just run to rich, have very good blue spark, don't know much else to do that has'nt already been done, just wondering if anybody else has ever had so much trouble with rich running plug killing tractors. Have a 60 and never have to put plugs in it, runs good, both the A and G are getting frustrating. Thanks for listening, Ken.

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730-lp

02-07-2005 21:04:49




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 Re: plug fouling blues in reply to Ken C., 02-07-2005 17:29:14  
Ken I pull an A with a power block that has a 51 carb set a little rich. I use to foul a right plug about ever 3rd pull,two years ago I installed a petronic's electronic ignition and a 40,000 volt coil to match, plug gap set at.050. I pulled 30 hooks that year and didn't foul a plug+ tractor starts a 100% better.



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John T

02-07-2005 20:17:10




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 Re: plug fouling blues in reply to Ken C., 02-07-2005 17:29:14  
Ken, a big difference in less plug fouling on the A or G versus 60 is that older single induction carb for both cylinders versus the dual induction on the 60. As explained above and due to that 0 180 then 540 coast cycle 2 cylinder firing, the left piston gets a better gas charge and does most of the work at idle.

If the plugs foul and come out with that flat black colored sooty look you described, I agree thats excess unburned fuel from running too rich or long idle periods. Some things that can help, especially when idling, are to NOT run that carb (idle adjustment) any richer than necessary. HOWEVER, if youre gonna pull it then you have to have the carb (load needle) set sufficiently rich to avoid fuel starvation. Other things which can help reduce plug fouling are to use shutters or other air restrictions to get her up to 180 or higher degrees as soon as possible. Finally, you might try running a heat range or two hotter than specified for the tractor. If it has 18 mm plugs, maybe run Autolite 3116 (non resistor) or 388 versus the 386 specified which corresponds to the Champion D 21 (cooler)and D 23 (hotter) or the AC C 88L I believe. On the older 7/8 plugs I run the deep reach side wire electrode hot plugs like the Autolite 3077 or AC 18.

If shes black sooting n fouling the plugs that quick, you must be idling her awful rich or the spark is weak, but you indicate its blue which usually means a good spark?? Theres no inlet air restrictions like in the air cleaner or mesh or piping is there??? The choke butterfly plate opens fully and stays open right??? If not she can be air starving n running over rich. Does she throw a lot of black smoke from the stack at idle??? I guess you have adjusted the carbs idle and load needles??? I set my idle initially at 1 3/4 to 2 out then at a slow idle lean them until she hesitates then open back up about 1/4.

If not already you should be using wire core and NOT carbon core suppressor plug wires. If she throws a good visible BLUE spark (NOT a faint thin wimpy yellow) from the plug wires end to frame about 1/8 inch or more the spark seems okay. I also agree with the above, dont ever kill her by choking which deposits raw fuel on the plugs, kill it by turning the gas off n letting her die from lack of fuel is better.

Have you done some extensive cam work?? maybe you have her set up rich for pulling so she loads up at idle??

SUMMARY: Try n get the temperature up quicker,,,,, ,,run hotter plugs,,,,, ,,,use wire core plug wires,,,,, ,,,dont idle her long periods and dont idle her too rich,,,,, ,,,insure theres no inlet air restrictions from a choke butterfly thats not staying full open or air cleaner or piping restrictions. If youre running high compressiosn and exotic fuels I suggest an electronic ignition and a high performance high energy coil, now that oughta really reduce plug fouling !!!!! !!!!! However, if shes not all that high compression, then you shouldnt be running very high octane gas which is purposely harder to ignite and may foul the plugs sooner and may cause more harm than good. If you have high compression then you need the higher octane gas and can produce more HP but NOT in a low compression engine do you wanna use it !!!

Good Luck n God Bless

John T

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Ken C.

02-08-2005 16:54:50




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 Re: plug fouling blues in reply to John T, 02-07-2005 20:17:10  
I was messing with it today, and i can screw the idle jet all the way in and it still runs. I thought that should kill it. I took the bowl off and looked, when the needle is all the way in it looks like the hole is completely closed, So i ran some more and i can screw both needles all the way in and it still runs. Does'nt seem like the needles do anything, you can screw them all the way out and hold them in your hand and it runs about the same. It has got to be sucking gas somewhere else, other than by those needles. Guess i will have to send it off, but sure wanted to fix it myself, went through every part of these tractors and looks like the carb as simple as it looks is gonna be the part that i'll have to give up on. I am running 386 plugs and don't know the compression, but they are Jerry Hinrichs aluminum pistons, with .050 off the head and .050 off the block, with crank offset ground with 60 rods. Thanks for the info Ken.

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Mike M

02-07-2005 18:58:32




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 Re: plug fouling blues in reply to Ken C., 02-07-2005 17:29:14  
You say that A runs until you kill it ? How are you killing it ? Make sure you don't choke it to stop it.



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BushogPapa

02-07-2005 17:57:56




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 Re: plug fouling blues in reply to Ken C., 02-07-2005 17:29:14  
All the early horizontal 2-cylinder deeres "Loaf" on the right cylinder when they Idle... You might try using a wider gap on the plug to see if that helps.. Are the rings good-- they are not pulling oil up past the rings, and fouling the plugs..? If they idle a lot, they will foul the Rt plug.. Have you worked them hard lately..?? That seems to be the best cure..!! You might try different wt oil.. My "B" tells me quick, if it needs an oil change by fouling the Rt Plug..!!!

Ron..

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Bushogpapa

02-08-2005 07:23:21




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 Re: plug fouling blues in reply to BushogPapa, 02-07-2005 17:57:56  
You will have to get the RICH condition corrected... The raw fuel will be washing the cylinders down, and causing unneccessary wear on the rings...!!! You should end up with only a "hint" of black smoke while at full power... Set the Idle mixture just rich enough that the engine will take throttle well after it is warmed up some... You can't have a rich mixture at Idle with the "Lettered" 2-cylinder JD's, or the plugs will foul..(especially the Rt plug).. The Left cylinder is the "Lead Cylinder" and fires first...the Right Cylinder fires Last, and at Idle, seldom gets enough fuel/air mixture to fire... That is why they sound so darned GOOD....!!! Have you checked the Float level setting..??

Good Luck Ron..

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Ken C.

02-07-2005 19:22:43




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 Re: plug fouling blues in reply to BushogPapa, 02-07-2005 17:57:56  
Yes the rings are new, new bore, new aluminum pistons, head reworked, new valves, new guides, rebushed rockers, new govenor bearings, new cam bearings, cam reground, crank turned, new mains, new rod bearings, everything is new are reworked on both tractors, and they act the same. I don't run them a lot, mostly at tractor pulls, but if you have to wait in line very long that right plug will let you down when in a load. I think it is running to rich because it black smokes when any load are when you speed up the throttle, have put on two carbs with not much change. May need to find a known good carb and try that, maybe mine have some inside cracks that can't be seen.

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Lee B

02-07-2005 20:02:29




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 Re: plug fouling blues in reply to Ken C., 02-07-2005 19:22:43  
With added info in 2nd post, I would say you need to adjust your carburator(s) so that the black smoke on throttle plate opening is as less as possible while not missing a beat. This would require a turning in of the load screw and an opening up of the idle screw some to compensate as the two screws do effect each other somewhat. If situation only worsens then you went the wrong way with both screws.

With two carburators you should be able to use a spare spark plug as a 'load' for the left side spark plug wire and run the engine with only the right side for an even better carburator mixture adjustment session. Lean as possible while idling and no-miss/no-smoke during full throttle position would be my goals there as a first attempt. I wouldn't try this 1/2 engine tuning method with the just one carb setup though, guaranteed to not be right when the left side plug is hooked up again?

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xragman

02-07-2005 17:54:46




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 Re: plug fouling blues in reply to Ken C., 02-07-2005 17:29:14  
check that good blue spark will jump .188 gap.change plugs from sideto side.still have problem , them work on carb.



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