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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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all fuel

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johndeereman

02-01-2005 10:04:43




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my question is is kerosene the equivalent to the tractor fuel used in the 40s wanting to try out the all fuel aspect of my b just to see what if any difference there might be.




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jd b puller

02-01-2005 19:52:51




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 Re: all fuel - neat smoke in reply to johndeereman, 02-01-2005 10:04:43  
Well, if you just want smoke rings... Remove the oil rings. I did this once -- not by choice.

One weekend I thought I would rehone and rering my B so I got her all tore apart and then the rings didn't come in on time. Naturally, when I pulled the pistons out, I broke the oil ring on 1 of the pistons. Since the pull was the next day, I just honed it and put it back together with what I had - the old rings, minus the oil ring on one side. Long story short, Let it idle for a couple minutes (white smoke) then hammer it forward (big plume of black smoke), win first place in the open class (in 1st gear) and have everyone and their brother ask you what you did to that thing to make it run so good!!! Make sure you take an extra couple sets of plugs...

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Ravgardner

02-01-2005 18:38:58




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 Re: all fuel in reply to johndeereman, 02-01-2005 10:04:43  
I'm not a fuel expert obviously, It seemed that kerosene didn't yield as much power at the draw bar. Wow that is interesting. I thought the loss in power was due to fewer BTUs in the kerosene. Rav's wrong again!!

Kerosene is heavier than gas and has more BTU's per gallon just as Clooney stated.

Kerosene 140K BTU's / gallon
Gasoline, Vehicle 125K BTU's /gallon

Kerosene has a specific gravity around 817 kg/cu.m and gasoline around 737 kg/cu.m. So a gallon of gas weighs less than kerosene and of course water.

What I can't quite understand is why a pound of gasoline has more btu's than and pound of Kerosene. Help me out Clooney!! Does it have to do with the specific gravity of fuel?

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Clooney

02-01-2005 19:03:18




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 Re: all fuel in reply to Ravgardner, 02-01-2005 18:38:58  
Ravgardner, gasoline weighs less than kerosene as you & I stated.. Therefore you get more volume of gasoline in a pound than in kerosene.. That translates to more energy or more BTU�s due to the extra volume..

Clooney



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Ravgardner

02-01-2005 19:16:05




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 Re: all fuel in reply to Clooney , 02-01-2005 19:03:18  
Thnaks Clooney. I suspected that was the case. I did some reading on octane and learned a thing or two. There is an interesting site packed with some facts that some folks already know, but I found very useful. I've pasted in the link to the information on octane. There is a nice explaination on the difference between gasoline and kerosene Here:
Link



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old

02-01-2005 11:14:16




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 Re: all fuel in reply to johndeereman, 02-01-2005 10:04:43  
I have a 1935 JD-B all fuel that we ran diesel/gas mix in and worked very. It was also neet to see it put out nice big smoke rings at idle. It also seemed to have more power with that mix then running on just gas. I haven't run it on that mix in year because I don't use it much any more other then a little rakeing of hay in the summer and that is just to keep the old girl in good working order.



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Ravgardner

02-01-2005 10:36:20




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 Re: all fuel in reply to johndeereman, 02-01-2005 10:04:43  
Kerosene is the closest we have to "Tractor Fuel." You will need to get the engine hot. Best results will be at 190 to 200 degrees of water temp. One thing about Kerosene, it has fewer BTU's per gallon than Gas, therefore there you could expect less power. Good luck. Let us know how you experiment comes out.



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John T

02-01-2005 14:39:25




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 Re: all fuel in reply to Ravgardner, 02-01-2005 10:36:20  
Rav, are you sure Kerosene is less BTU per gallon than gas????? ??? I was thinking the heavier fuels like Kerosene, then No. 2, then No. 6 fuel oils kept increasing in BTU????? ? But I dont know beans about fuel or anything related to chemistry. Due to their (all fuels) lower octane, they had to run at lower compressions (than gas tractors) to prevent pre ignition spark knocking in the all fuel tractors and THATS WHAT caused lower Horsepower than the higher compressions used for gasoline, but I thought pound for pound the heavier fuels had MORE BTU???

What ya think????? Lemme knowwwww www

John T

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Clooney

02-01-2005 15:55:20




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 Re: all fuel in reply to John T, 02-01-2005 14:39:25  
Ravgardner,, John T,,

Kerosene basically has more BTU,s per gallon but less BTU�s per pound.. That sometimes confuses the issue as large industrial equipment sometimes measures fuel by weight..

Fuel BTU�s vary from summer to winter, grade, & with different refining options but gasoline is usually considered to be around 120,00-125,00 BTU�s per gallon & kerosene from around 130,000 BTU�s to maybe 134,000 BTU�s per gallon..

The big difference comes in the octane rating of gasoline VS. kerosene.. The octane rating of kerosene is very low so can�t run a very high compression ratio therefore the engine efficiency suffers..

Clooney

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John T

02-01-2005 16:24:22




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 Re: all fuel in reply to Clooney , 02-01-2005 15:55:20  
Thanks Good Clooney, I vaguely remembered my Farmer Uncle who retired as a Boiler Operator tellin me the heavier "fuels" were more BTU per Gallon?? or something like that, so glad you enlightened us.

John T



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Mike M

02-01-2005 10:10:20




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 Re: all fuel in reply to johndeereman, 02-01-2005 10:04:43  
I have ran several of my tractors on kerosene and had good luck with it provided they still have the all fuel pistons in them. I was plowing with my 1947 A one time and halfway down the field I switched from gas to kerosene I couldn't tell any difference in the way it ran or pulled,but it did smell different.



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