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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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24V Wiring question

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Ken in Mich

01-31-2005 07:07:10




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On a recently bought JD500A backhoe (3020),
the previous owner put a new one wire 24V alternater on it, the ground between the bateries was removed so it is basicly a 24V system, which explains why the lights and electrics are blown or removed.
I'm trying to figure how to isolate the alternater to get it back to original wiring. Another option would be to come off the battery closest to the ground for the intstrment and lighting circuts.
Any suggestions how to handle this without buying a new alternater?

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jdemaris

01-31-2005 20:33:42




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to Ken in Mich, 01-31-2005 07:07:10  
If the alternator works, and the starter works, why not run it with 24 volts? Seems there isn't much that would need changing - but I don't know what's on the tractor now. If the injection pump shutoff is electric, you'd need a 24 volt solenoid for it which is easy to get (or a step-down resistor) - but most 500s are manual shutoff. So, you might have some headlights to deal with, a few indicator lights if they still exist, and a fuel gauge that probably doesn't work anyway. All the other gauges are probably mechanical. It would be a more reliable system this way than a split 24 volt system. Most of the problems we had with the split Delco 24 volt systems could be traced (at their incipience) to the starter motor loosing its isolation and developing a ground from brush dust accumulation. With a straight 24 volt setup, the dust wouldn't effect it. If your one-wire is a coverted 10 or 12SI, it ought to have all the capacity you need unless you plan on running an array of high powered lights at engine idle.

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Ken in Mich

02-01-2005 07:16:26




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to jdemaris, 01-31-2005 20:33:42  
I'm going to leave it the way it is (straight 24V) I'll deal with the lights, the fuel sender is gone anyways. I dont know about the injection pump shutoff, there isnt any mention of it in the owners manual but there are no wires going to it and it was recently replaced. In my post about the numbers, the 10 51 is probably a 10 S1. It seems to charge ok. Thank for all the imput, Ken



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jdemaris

02-01-2005 07:42:36




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to Ken in Mich, 02-01-2005 07:16:26  
If the engine shuts off with the throttle lever, then it's not a concern. If the engine shuts off with the key, then it IS a concern.
The military uses 24 volts for almost everything, so parts are easy to get. I have a couple of Chevy trucks, Blazers, and a Suburban that are diesel. Their counterparts, in the US military, are all 24 volts, alternators, starters, Roosamaster/Stanadyne injection pump shutoffs (same make as your Deere), etc.

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buckeye al

01-31-2005 15:03:42




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to Ken in Mich, 01-31-2005 07:07:10  
I have an Allis HD6 crawler with a 24 volt system which does not have any ground between batteries. I believe that's what you now have from your description. My crawler's lights are all 12 volt sealed beam bulbs,. They all work in pairs. Two 12 volt bulbs in series work just fine on the 24 volt battery to ground system. If all you want is lights, you might consider the option.

My temp gauge is mechanical as opposed to electric as is the oil pressure gauge. Fuel gauge is 24 volt to start with & the ammeter doesn't care so overall it's a bit simpler than your situation but like I said, if all you want is lights..... .

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jdemaris

01-31-2005 19:49:01




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to buckeye al, 01-31-2005 15:03:42  
I've got an HD6 also - Buda 344 powered with a straight 24 volt system. Nothing like the Deere if he has the the split Delco system with half the tractor 12 volt negative ground, and half 12 volt positive ground, along with a 24 cranking. When I was a Deere mechanic, we had 24 volt (groundless) Delco alternator kits for the 3020s (500s), and 4020s. Is that the alternator that is on this 500?



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jdemaris

01-31-2005 19:52:15




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to jdemaris, 01-31-2005 19:49:01  
Guess I should of read more closely, I see now it's a one-wire alternator - not the update that Deere offered.



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buickanddeere

01-31-2005 11:15:03




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to Ken in Mich, 01-31-2005 07:07:10  
Kenneth who has a link over at johnnypopper, builts floating 24V alternators.



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Ken in Mich

01-31-2005 09:29:28




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to Ken in Mich, 01-31-2005 07:07:10  
Thanks Guys, dosent look like any good options. I did find some numbers etc on it:
(on back face)
Delco-Remy

(on top radius)
10 51 1Wire 24V 40A
1105510

(on front, looks like a casting number)
1383 43

I see for a new alternater for this model from Deere is $140 and a regulater is $81, that might be the cheapest alternative after all.
Chances are I wouldn't ever use the lights, but I still want to have them in case I did.

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Gerald J.

01-31-2005 08:03:27




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to Ken in Mich, 01-31-2005 07:07:10  
Floating a grounded alternator would be tough and dangerous. You'd have to make an insulated mount and an insulated belt tension bar and then NEVER drop a wrench between the engine, loader, or frame and the alternator case. That wrench would get full battery 2 kilo amps short (limited by the negative charging wire) to weld and melt. Not a safe operation.

You could connect lights and accessories from the middle of the 24 volt battery to ground, but that would guarantee the low battery not being charged like the high battery. Deadly on that low battery from undercharge, and hard on the high battery from overcharge

You could look for a little Leece-Neville with both sides floating. I have one here, 105 amps, twice as big as a Delco 10SI, maybe larger with both + and - terminals from the rectifier insulated. There might have even been a Delco made with both rectifiers floating. Or maybe yours could be made that way by a good automotive electric shop that could find the parts for the negative side of the rectifier from a Delco made for positive ground, or by installing reversed polarity diodes in a positive rectifier block and using that for the negative rectifier block with the appropriate insulators.

You could hang a separate 12 volt alternator and use it to run the lights on a separate or the lower 12 volt battery.

The original 24 volt generator was only good for 10 amps. Which made it charge from a hard start most all day to catch up. It was not designed for chore tractor use a half hour each start. I don't know what they were thinking.

Or you could regulate that 24 volt alternator down to 12 volts, hook the batteries in parallel and go to a 12 volt starter the way the late 3020 and 4020 as well as all the later JD tractors did. JD sells a kit for that, about $600. I saw one advertised on epay last week I think.

Or you could find surplus aircraft headlights and indicator lamps and run the accessories on 24 volts. There are 24 counterparts for nearly all the lamps, not commonly stocked at your corner tractor parts store though. Probably only the fuel gauge needs 12 volts, so you could set up a 12 volt regulator supplied by 24 volts for that. I don't know the fuel gauge current, but its probably within the capabilities of a LM320K12 or bigger integrated circuit regulator.

Gerald J.

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Bob

01-31-2005 08:01:20




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 Re: 24V Wiring question in reply to Ken in Mich, 01-31-2005 07:07:10  
It all depends on what specific alternator and regulator you have. Some alternators are made so the "innards" can be isolated be removing a jumper or adding insulation washers, etc., to the rectifier studs.

If the regulator has it's (+) and (-) leads brought out as pigtails, and there is no connection between the regulator case and the (-) lead, it should work on a split system.

Any make and model #'s on the regulator and alternator?

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