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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Model H piston rings...???...

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Jimmy-H.

01-02-2005 15:24:14




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I am worhing on replacing the rings on my H serial# 13656. How many rings should be on each pistion? When I pulled them out there was only 3, I thought there should be 4. Also any help or advice for me would be greatly apperciated!




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buickanddeere

01-02-2005 19:15:22




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Jimmy-H., 01-02-2005 15:24:14  
Don't know if it's common or just happened to one H inparticular. A crack developed in the skirt of one piston. Rather than pay for new pistons the "restorer" just had both pistons chucked in a lathe. And the skirts were cut off just above the "crack". Tractor runs but ..... ..... ...?



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Clooney

01-02-2005 15:29:47




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Jimmy-H., 01-02-2005 15:24:14  
Jimmy, that depends on the pistons you have.. Maybe you don't have Deere pistons in it.. There were many aftermarket available at one time.. All my H�s have 3 compression & 1 oil ring on them. How many ring grooves in your pistons?

Clooney



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Jimmy-h

01-02-2005 16:14:36




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Clooney , 01-02-2005 15:29:47  
Piston part # is H212R. There is 4 groves on the top of piston. There were only rings on the lower 3 groves. Tractor smoked like a freight train. I bought this tractor in this condition to restore. Is it that someone through the years replaced them and left the top ring off?



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Clooney

01-02-2005 16:33:46




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Jimmy-h, 01-02-2005 16:14:36  
Jimmy, that 212R is a Deere �H� piston.. Should use 3 above the pin & 1 oil below.. BUT<<< Leaving that top ring off was done on occasion if there was a ridge at the top of the cylinder & the engine was re-rung.. That assured the new top ring wouldn�t hit the ridge & break causing major damage.. They will run quite good without that top ring for light useage..

Clooney



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Donny-B

01-02-2005 16:33:13




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Jimmy-h, 01-02-2005 16:14:36  
Jimmy-H, You have a standard bore piston. The reason there was no ring in the top groove is because it is a "carbon collection groove". I don"t know Deeres reason for this. Maybe Clooney or one of the other Deere Gurus can answer that. If there were no other problems with the engine other then burning oil, I would clean the pistons, Hone the cylinders, and put a new set of rings in it. Be sure the pistons are in good condition and the bore is within spec (or close) with no deep gouges. Good luck and have fun.

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F-I-T

01-02-2005 16:25:45




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Jimmy-h, 01-02-2005 16:14:36  
Jimmy:

The only "H" I had apart was in 1981, so my memory might fail me here, but if they are like any other standard design JD piston in the two cylinder era, there are three compression rings above the wrist pin, and the oil control ring is near the bottom of the piston. There is a narrow groove above the top three rings, and I guess it's to collect carbon. I was never really sure, but it uses no ring. 3 above the wrist pin and oil ring below the wrist pin is what yours should have.

Frank

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Jimmy-H

01-02-2005 16:40:12




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to F-I-T, 01-02-2005 16:25:45  
Frank --That really helps, This is the first 2 Cylinder I have had apart. Mine does sound like what you described. They did not have the lower oil ring on them. I see no way they could fall off after instalation-just someone left them off? I guess this would cause the excessive smoke. The grove on the bottom of wrist pin is wider than the others and the top one is thinner than the 3 below it.

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F-I-T

01-02-2005 17:21:42




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Jimmy-H, 01-02-2005 16:40:12  
Yup.That's right. Well, she would smoke quite a bit with no oil control rings. You might get lucky and after a healthy hone, put new rings in and go.

I just got a '41 "H", so we'll be going through the pains together.

Frank



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Clooney

01-02-2005 17:44:15




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to F-I-T, 01-02-2005 17:21:42  
Jimmy, don't mean to jump the fence here & get in Franks yard but I just wanted to question why those oil rings were left out..

I find it hard to believe they were just forgotten about & left out.. Possible but probably warrants a closer look..

There are usually a couple reason oil rings are left out other than not having any & even then old ones are probably reused.. The first is the cylinders were sleeved & the oil rings hang up on the parting line between the bottom of the sleeve & original bore.. The second is the oil rings pop out past the bottom of the cylinder bore at BDC.. That can also happen due to a poor sleeve job or a broken bore extension on the cylinder bore bottom [worth look anyhow].

Clooney

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F-I-T

01-02-2005 19:10:38




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Clooney , 01-02-2005 17:44:15  
Yes, Clooney, that is a possibility that I wasn't thinking about. Boy, they would have had to use a really short sleeve to botch that up on an "H". The back of the block is flat with no extensions as I recall from , err, some years ago. I guess anything is possible. Man, I'd hate to pay for a sleeve job and find that it didn't extend all the way through the old bore.

Frank



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Jimmy-H.......Clooney you

01-02-2005 19:09:30




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Clooney , 01-02-2005 17:44:15  
I couldn't wait till morning...had to go to shop and check. The back of the block is beveled and the oil ring groove has a bevel. At BDC the end of piston sticks out of the block and I can see part of the bevel on piston. I can't tell for sure but ring would be right at edge or just over. If this is why no ring, what would be my best option? Not going to use tractor for work-let my wife and son ride and call their own.

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JDClooney

01-03-2005 03:25:50




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to Jimmy-H.......Clooney you, 01-02-2005 19:09:30  
Jimmy, those oil rings come real close to the bottom of the bore even when correct so your best bet is to install a ring & see if it stays in the bore at BDC.. I have seen some where the ring comes � way out but stay compressed� I had a 70 a while back that the bottom oil ring would just start to expand as it dropped to the bottom of the bore so I left the cylinder base gasket out & used LocTite 515 as a gasket.. Just make sure the ring doesn�t come out enough to expand or you know the results..

Clooney

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Jimmy-THANKS GUYS!!!!

01-02-2005 17:41:26




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 Re: Model H piston rings...???... in reply to F-I-T, 01-02-2005 17:21:42  
Thanks guys for the help!! I feel honored to get such great and quick responses- And from such well respected people!



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