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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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4020

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andre

12-29-2004 13:09:34




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On the 4020 that is 24 volt, what is needed to change it to a 12 volt? The gen. don't work now, do you have to change the starter, or is their a relay or something to change. Thanks Andy




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jd68

12-30-2004 14:43:06




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 Re: 4020 in reply to andre, 12-29-2004 13:09:34  
Andre what this really boils down to is WATTS
...its the 1 constant in the equation as to how much energy is required to turn the engine over at a given speed. It dosen"t matter wether you are using a 6 12 18 or 24 volt system the wattage required to turn the motor over remains the same.
What changes is the amperage required to do the job. As the system voltage decreases (from 24v to 12v) the amperage increases. The change is inversly proportional .....which means by cutting the voltage by 1/2 you double the amount of amperage you need to get the same amount of watts to crank the engine over. Double the amperage and the first thing that has to get bigger is the battery cables....MUCH BIGGER.
Next thing that has to get bigger is the starter...not physiclly bigger so much but magneticly bigger. To have the same amount of battery cranking life they should also be doubled in size. Then once you get all this done
you"ll generate double the amout of heat in the system when you start the tractor.
So if you look at it electriclly it"s about the worst thing you can do.
The advise from buickdeere is a good ....anyway to get more amps out of the generator is good but I"m wondering if he changes the armatuer as well as the feild windings ?

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buickanddeere

12-30-2004 11:07:18




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 Re: 4020 in reply to andre, 12-29-2004 13:09:34  
It's your choice. If going 12 then keep every 24 part safe, secure and well labeled. Someday some crazy collector will pay to be able to convert back to factory origional. The 10amp 24 generators are rebuildable with the improved 18 amp winding used in the two cylinder serial # 8400500 and higher tractors. Go oversize on the 12V starter. No diesel was ever cranked too fast. Unless you are electicaly trained or have a buddy that is. Anything other than a direct wire to wire swap. Has flooded this board with frustrated people who may have smelled electrical smoke. Two 12V 620 amp batteries in parallel will crank faster than two 6V 620 amp batteries in series. New 00 cables with swagged or soldered ends will assist starting on 12V or 24V .

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buickanddeere

12-31-2004 01:16:22




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 Oops, failing memory Re: 4020 in reply to buickanddeere, 12-30-2004 11:07:18  
Sorry, somehow I had it in my head they just swapped from the AR11030 armature in the 10amp Delco model 1105211. For the AR11090 in the 18 amp Delco 1103021. The field windings and pole peices are different too. The upgrade from 10 to 18 amp took place earlier at serial number 8400200.



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Dale in IN

12-30-2004 07:20:52




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 Re: 4020 in reply to andre, 12-29-2004 13:09:34  
When I changed mine from a 24V Gen to a 12V alternator. I had a elictrical shop rewire my starter for 12V also. But this turned out to be a catastraphy. I had to have the starter rebuilt about every 2 years. And batteries didn't last much longer. I finally wound up getting a rebuilt starter off of a 4320 and moving the batteries out on the side of the frame right beside the starter with 2 heavy duty 6Vs tied in series. This makes the bateries a lot easier to get to to serviece and check them. The 4320 starter is 4" longer and will bolt right up. It also carries a lot more whallop. When I first instaled it I just bumped the starter button to see if I had it wired right and the tractor started. I could hardly believe it. It had never started that quick in the time I had owned it. The Batteries that were then in it lasted another three years before I had to replace them. And the ones that are now in it have been in it for at least 4 years and the last time I had it started they were still very strong.

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ET

12-30-2004 06:38:20




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 Re: 4020 in reply to andre, 12-29-2004 13:09:34  
IN my humble opinion if the generator is all that is wrong with the 24 volt system I would fix it and stay with the origonal system. I have never seen a 12volt system spin one of those engines over like a good properly maintained 24 volt system. I have been called on a number of times to try and find out what is wrong on some back yard 12 volt change overs and they can be harder to fix than the origonal 24 volt system.

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Gary in TX

12-29-2004 16:34:43




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 Re: 4020 in reply to andre, 12-29-2004 13:09:34  
I'll tell ya how I did my 3020. I put a one wire alternator on it, a 12 volt starter(one from a 4430 is what I was told to get but they gave me a shorter one and I didn't have to change my filter set up.
I took all the wires loose from the volt regulator took the blue and brown wires to the charging circuits and tied them to the single post on the alternator, connected the blue and brown at the starter, hooked both batteries to the stud on the solinoid and cranked her up. I have not had a lick of trouble out of it. I couldn't keep batteries charged with the 24 volt system and sure am glad I went to 12 volt. Cost me about $200.00 to do mine if I remember right, in fact I believe it was less than that.

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Mike Aylward

12-29-2004 15:56:06




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 Re: 4020 in reply to andre, 12-29-2004 13:09:34  
Andre, my advice to my customers who have 24 volt system tractors is that anytime a major component fails (starter or generator) it is a good time and go ahead and spend a little extra and convert the tractor to 12-volt. The system will be much more reliable and much safer, too. There really isn't as much to change in the wiring as you might think. The A circuit and B curcuit (blue and brown wires on most components) are simply tied together making one system. The wiring you will need at the alternator can be made out of the wiring that is there. I do install a diode in the harness at the alternator as it seems to work a little better. There are a few other things to change that I'm afraid I am not able to elaborate on because my notes are in the shop. I also install a relay in the starting curcuit that normally is not furnished. Dave Wickman can probably tell you off the top of his head what all to do, but I'm afraid at this time of the day my memory is not responding as well as it should..:-). Mike

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John T

12-29-2004 14:10:04




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 Re: 4020 in reply to andre, 12-29-2004 13:09:34  
Andre, you would need a 12 volt starter,,,,, ,,,,,12 volt solenoid,,,,, ,,,,12 volt Alternator or Generator and matching regulation,,,,, ,,and some rewiring. If your existign starter is good you may wanna just repair the charging system which consists of the 2 wire 24 volt Generator and Voltage Regulator which will be cheaper than a new starter and Gen or Alternator.

Those 24 volt systems are a lil harder for us to diagnose over the net although you may just have a bad Gen or VR. Dave Wickman (WTW) who posts here is the go to guy on those systems and I been tryign to talk Buick n Deere into offerign a seminar on them at the next Gathering of the Green if hes game.

Good Luck, God Bless n Happy New Year

John T in Indiana

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Clooney

12-29-2004 13:56:25




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 Re: 4020 in reply to andre, 12-29-2004 13:09:34  
Andre, you can buy a conversion kit from YT tractor [this site]..

""(JD) 12 Volt Conversion Kit - Converts 24 Volt systems to 12 Volts on 3010, 3020, 4010, 4020. Kit includes: New 12Volt starter, Alternator, bracket, battery cables & wiring, solenoid, instructions. (Part No: TS-8000)""�(about $600.00)

That pretty well covers it.. OR, you could buy a 12 volt starter & solenoid, buy a Delco 12 volt alternator [either 1 wire or 3 wire], then make your own wire harness & alternator mounting bracket.. The wiring can become a little bit of a project if you aren�t electrically blessed.

Deere used to offer a 12 volt conversion kit [at least my local dealer did] but not sure if it is still available or how much it cost..

Agri Services could probably also fix you up with either a full 12 volt conversion, or just build you a wire harness if needed..

Your other option would be to repair your 24 volt system.. While that 24 volt system seems confusing, it really isn�t once you work with it for a while.. Maybe you just have a simple problem like a broken wire or a stuck generator brush [both common problems on the 4020.

Good luck with what ever you decide.. If you need any help just post back & someone here will help you out..

Clooney

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