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Battery Hook-Up on 4020

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agrogers

12-22-2004 16:24:01




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I have new batteries for our 4020, only problem is I pulled the old batteries out to take to the store to exchange them, and promptly forgot which lead goes on which terminal.
It's a 12+12 parallel and I'd probably figure it out when I put one lead on the wrong terminal a shower of sparks and burnt up generators and starters make their way to the JD dealer...




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John T

12-23-2004 06:48:58




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to agrogers, 12-22-2004 16:24:01  
ag, Settign here, Im unsure if you have two 12 volt batteries in series, which is a typical 4020 Diesel 24 volt 2 wire configuration, or if you have converted to 12 volts and your two 12 volt batteries are indeed in "parallel" as you stated?????

If the 2 are in series, a good first thing to look at is like my old friend Gerald J mentioned in that the + and - battery posts are different sizes (diameter) and the old connections should provide a clue as to how it was connected prior. If they are in series and you have the 24 volt system, the batteries are connected + of one battery to - of opposite side battery and that mid inner tie point (+ of one to - of other) also has a bond or jumper or cable tied to frame ground. Then, the 2 outer most untied posts (remaining other + of one - of other) goes to the 24 volt starter, i.e. the starter has TWO big cables to it versus only one as in 12 volt systems, and the voltage scross them is 24 volts. Again, those two outermosts untied to starter posts ARE NOT the two posts tied in the middle and bonded to frame ground.

On the 6 versus 12 volt debate, we have discussed that several times here and the bottom line (from an engineering view) is that whichever configuration (single 12 or two sixes in series) stores the most energy provides more reserve cranking capacity. A battery is an energy storage device and electrical energy is expended in Power which is Volts x Amps over time. If the batteries are of equal design type n construction, the most energy is whatever combination has the most LEAD AND ACID AND PLATES (usually corresponds with physical size n weight) and thats why two sixes in series (physically bigger n more lead acid n plates) can store more energy than a single smaller 12 volt unit. HOWEVER, thats NOT to say that two light wimpy six volters in series stores more energy than a single super heavy duty 12 volt unit. Just cuz theres two dont necessarily mean they store more total energy, again its the lead n acid n plates so an apples to apples comparison usually means the two stores more energy, which is why the early A"s etc used two sixes in series. That simply had more lead n acid n plates (more weight n total physical size also) than a single smaller 12 volt battery.

Then as my other friend GT (B n D) pointed out, two batteries in series adds voltages, but the amperage (like its CCA rating) stays the same, therefore, a single 1000 CCA 12 volt can pump more amps into a starter than two sizes in series which only has say a 650 CCA rating. HOWEVER, the two sixes (again provided equal construction) can pump its 650 amps for a longer time than the 12 can deliver its 1000 amps. The single 1000 CCA 12 will spin her over faster to begin with, but the two sixes of 650 CCA in series will crank her longer (Volts x Amps x Time is how a batteries stored energy gets expended).

If you wanna spend the big bucks and store even more energy, these new AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) spiral cell technology batteries like Optima makes (I think Lifeline maes them in flat cell type) will really crank her fast n for a long time.

Hope this helps n dont cornfuse.

God Bless n Merry Christmas to yall

John T in Indiana

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JDWayne

12-23-2004 05:54:05




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to agrogers, 12-22-2004 16:24:01  
I hate to break buickanddeere"s bubble but the best cranking is from 2 6V in series. Just look at John Deere"s tractor"s in the past. First on the 4020 diesel 24V (2 12V in series), then just on the next 4020 2 6V in series. The 6V in series is great. I have changed a lot of 24V to 12V and use the old 12V in parallel, then when those 12V"s go bad get 2 new 6V and put them in parallel and it works even better.

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CMB

12-23-2004 06:26:56




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to JDWayne, 12-23-2004 05:54:05  
I hate to break YOUR bubble Wayne, but in my experience, two 12v in parallel works MUCH better than two 6v in series. Actually one 1000 amp 12v on my 4620 spins it faster than two sixes ever did. I'm thinking that because the battery is right beside the starter, with cables less than one foot long is a big part of the reason. I always had trouble starting my 7520, which was two 6s in series, until I used two 12v in parallel with separate(very heavy)cables for each battery, that is, 4 total cables going to the starter. I just replaced a pair of 12v a few weeks ago,after 5-6 years of use. It is simply unbelievable just how fast a pair of 1000 amp batteries will spin it now. When we had a 105D combine,we replaced the two sixes with one 12v, worked much better,same with my "G", one 12v works better than two sizes ever did, In all of this we must remember that battery technology has really improved in the last few years.

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John T

12-23-2004 06:57:55




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to CMB, 12-23-2004 06:26:56  
Not to burst any bubbles lol, both you gents can be correct, but you gotta compare apples to apples in this debate. As my post above explains, a single 12 rated at 1000 CCA will indeed initially crank her faster than two sixes in series rated at 650 CCA, but WILL NOT NOT CRANK HER AS LONG. Batteries or battery stores energy which gets expended into a starter load as Volts x Amps x Time and its atually a batteries Amp Hour rating, which unfortunately isnt listed any longer, one needs to make an apples to apples comparison.

Fun topic (for me at least) for discussion

Merry Christman n God Bless yall

John T

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CMB

12-23-2004 08:15:47




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to John T, 12-23-2004 06:57:55  
John T I'm not looking for a controversy here,& I do understand the 2 sixes vs. 1 twelve comparison(sort of). However, in practical terms, an engine that spins faster, whether it be spark ignition or Diesel USUALLY starts better than one which is turning slower. If either dosn't start fairly quickly, chances are you have other ussues that need to be addresed. I guess my point is, that a properly maintained engine will start quickly,& the issue of a long cranking time becomes moot.(It's also VERY hard on starters).

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John T

12-23-2004 10:49:48




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to CMB, 12-23-2004 08:15:47  
Hey CM, I got to agree a fast cranker, especially on a Diesel where high compressions are required, does start better, in which case opting for the max CCA will probably get er done. I dont intend controversy either, I just enjoy these discussions and wanted to toss out a lil theory .

John T



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buickanddeere

12-23-2004 04:36:31




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to agrogers, 12-22-2004 16:24:01  
24V system, late model side console 12V or a 24V system converted to 12V? Two 10000CCA 12V batteries in parallel will whip an engine over faster than two 6V 1000CCA batteries in series. Better yet is two 12V 1000CCA batteries in series on a 24 starter.



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CMB

12-23-2004 06:35:09




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to buickanddeere, 12-23-2004 04:36:31  
I agree. I have a 4010D that is still 24v. Recently replaced some 6yr old 1050 amp batteries with new 1000 amp(the heaviest I could find,& were on sale to boot!). It is absolutly unbelieveable how fast it spins now. Have never seen this tractor crank this fast,& I've owned nearly 40 yrs!



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Gerald J.

12-22-2004 16:42:55




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to agrogers, 12-22-2004 16:24:01  
Notice that one battery post is bigger than the other. And that if its been wired right, the cable terminals are bigger and smaller to match. Don't force a big post in a small terminal and it should work. 12 + 12 in parallel isn't original. Diesel ordinally used 12 + 12 in series with the mid point grounded to give two 12 volt lighting circuits and one 24 volt starting and charging circuit.

Gerald

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msb

12-22-2004 20:49:26




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 Re: Battery Hook-Up on 4020 in reply to Gerald J., 12-22-2004 16:42:55  
On the right battery, the + goes to the starter and the - goes across to the + on the left battery.The -on the left battery goes to the starter.



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