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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Timeing a '47 John Deere A

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Jwolfe

11-16-2004 05:10:38




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The owners manual shows how to time a "47 A w/magneto. After completion, a check with timming light shows a retarded spark. The maintenance manual specifications shows a timing of "TC" for a magneto equipped "A". What does that mean? What is the best way to insure the correct timing? Any OLD mechanics out there? OOOPS..EXPERIENCED mechanics?




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buckeye al

11-16-2004 15:14:10




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 Re: Timeing a '47 John Deere A in reply to Jwolfe, 11-16-2004 05:10:38  
I do almost exactly the same thing as Duane but with one small twist... Before installing the mag, I mark the position of the stop onto the outside of the mag so that I can see the mark after the mag is on the tractor. I use a straight edge to make the mark, lining up from the center point on the shaft out past the top edge of the stop. I install the mag & set it for a TDC trip. Next I mark on the governor case the position of the mark I placed on the mag.

For the run timing, I mark the flywheel just like Duane (I usually use a postage stamp sized piece of masking tape putting a corner on the mark) & I start it up. I move the mag until the timing is where I want it & shut it down.

I now draw a new line onto the mag from the governor case mark. This shows me how far I have moved the mag! It also is where the stop ring's stop WAS (and actually where I still want it) when I had it set with a TDC trip!

Next I remove the mag & move the stop ring to line up with this last mark the same way it lined up with the mark I first drew on the mag. Put the mag back on & again it for a TDC trip, start it & check the run time. Usually it will be REAL close to what you want. Rarely more than one more adjustment & I have it.

If the mag is already on the tractor and set to a TDC trip you can do this same thing by just drawing a mark from the governor to the mag mount flange. Then set the run timing with the light & the marks you established. Mark a new mark on the mag from the governor mark. That is how FAR you will need to move the stop ring when you remove the mag.

Just makes fewer trials necesary. Thought Duane might like the idea since we're actually doing the same thing.

Have fun fellers!

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John T

11-16-2004 06:39:38




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 Re: Timeing a '47 John Deere A in reply to Jwolfe, 11-16-2004 05:10:38  
J Wolfe, I pretty well do most the same as Duane there, so heres just a lil discussion on the subject: Mag timing consists ONLY of INITIAL START TIMING and RUN TIME ADVANCE TIMING, as it has no variable (per RPM) centrifugal mechanical advance like a distributor. To set the initial start timing, you loosen the mag in its drive and rotate it CCW to advance or CW to retard so it snaps (when cranking) just as the Flywhels Left Hand Impulse (LHI) passes by the flat mark at 3 o clock. If too fast it may kick the flywheel back or of too slow she can be harder to start.

The run time advance occurs over approx 250 RPM when the spring wind n trip stops working. Its set (on many Wicos at least) by loosening the 4 screws on the rear coupler and rotating the plate approx 2 1/2 index marks to the left (on many Wico Mags but different method on other mags) which makes her fire around 25 BTDC when running.

As Duane pointed out, due to wear etc the only sure way to tell when shes firing at RPM is via the use of a timing light.

Take care n God Bless

John T

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Duane Larson

11-16-2004 05:30:01




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 Re: Timeing a '47 John Deere A in reply to Jwolfe, 11-16-2004 05:10:38  
Jwolfe,
Often the impulse stop plate and the magnet armature shaft are worn where the plate slides over the armature shaft, so the proper position of the impulse trip ring (the thing you loosen 4 screws and rotate on the back of the mag) can be hard to determine. I prefer the following procedure, which is based on getting the running timing correct first, then adjusting the impulse-related starting timing (hopefully your tractor spends 99% of its time running and 1% of its time starting).
You will need a common old timing light and a battery to power it. Once you have these, measure the circumference of your flywheel. That corresponds to a circle of 360 degrees, so with that information, and the desire to make timing marks at 30, 25 and 20 degrees BTDC, you can calculate the distances on the flywheel corresponding to these degrees (multiply the degrees timing times the circumference of the flywheel, and divide by 360 to get the distance to measure). From the LH Impulse mark on your flywheel, measure the above distances in a counter clockwise direction and mark them with a piece of chalk, being sure to make the marks different lengths to differentiate between them. Hook your timing light to the battery, and to the spark plug on the flywheel side of the tractor. Start the tractor (making sure not to mess up the chalk marks), and using the timing light flash see which chalk mark lines up with the timing mark on the tractor case (used normally to set the impulse click). Rotate the magneto back and forth until the desired timing mark lines up with the case - I normally use 25 degrees if burning gasoline. When that is done, mark the magneto flange and governor case so the magneto can be returned to that position.

Stop the tractor, remove the timing light, and roll the engine over slowly, noting exactly where the impulse click now occurs. The desired time is when the piston is at TDC - ie, when the flywheel and case marks line up. If it is before the mark on the case, you want it to occur later, so remove the magneto and rotate the impulse stop ring down a bit. Then replace the magneto, being careful to locate it via the marks you made earlier, and try again. Keep doing this until you get the impulse to trip at TDC. Then you have both the running and starting timing correctly set.

You might note the position of the impulse stop ring - it will likely not be at the position recommended, due to the wear noted earlier.

Good Luck - others may have different methods, but this is how I do it.

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