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Ampmeter never moves to postive charge side of gau

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46 B

08-06-2004 06:38:36




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I replaced a cutoff light switch with a regular light switch and I replaced the cutoff resister on the generator with a 6-volt regulator. I have the third brush slid over to the other brush for maximum output (slid the brush forward).

I have the field terminal and the regulator field mounting on the generator connected.

I have the armature terminal and the armature mounting on the regulator connected. On this regulator the armature mounting is located under the regulator.

I have polarized the Bat mounting with the armature mounting.

The two wires leading from the dash are wired on the regulator:

The heavy wire is connected to the ampmeter and the BAT mounting on the regulator.

The smaller wire is connected to the light switch and to the load mounting on the regulator.

The ampmeter gauge never moves to zero whether the tractor is running or not. The needle is two degrees in the discharge section on the gauge.

When I flip the light switch the needle swings into the discharge section, then comes back to within two degrees of discharge.

With tractor running and lights turned off, the needle never moves into the charge side of gauge, no matter what the tractor rpms are turning.

Do I have a generator/regulator that is not producing current to recharge the battery?

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Clooney

08-06-2004 09:46:46




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 Re: Ampmeter never moves to postive charge side of in reply to 46 B, 08-06-2004 06:38:36  
46 B, you have a lot of information there & also a lot of possible problem areas..

Probably the easiest place to start is to use a test light or voltmeter & MAKE SURE you have battery power at the [BAT] terminal on the regulator.. If you DON"T then you will have to find out why.. That [BAT] terminal MUST have battery power ALL the Time for the system to charge correctly..

If you have battery power to the regulator�s [BAT] terminal then you can either pull the dash apart to check for correct wire polarity & positioning at the dash ammeter-- OR, just hook a battery charger to that regulator�s [BAT] terminal [using correct polarity for your battery] & set if for a decent charge.. If your dash ammeter then shows a charge the ammeter is hooked up correctly & the wiring to the ammeter & ammeter to battery is intact & working correctly.

If you show a charge in the above test your problem lies in the generator or regulator, or wiring between them, or a poor ground..

So, next try a generator polarization.. To do that- make sure your battery is installed in the correct polarity & is FULLY CHARGED,, then short the generator�s [F] post to the generator�s case,, then momentarily jump a jumper wire from the regulator�s [BAT] terminal to the generator�s [A] post [should be the larger post & marked A],, you should see a spark & if so the generator is polarized. Then start the engine & se if it charges..


__ If still No Charge---- Do the Generator/Regulator test shown below_

~Do a quick check by running the engine at WOT & shorting the generator�s [F] post [smaller of the two] to ground,,, if it charges then you have a broken [F] wire between the generator & regulator,,, or a bad regulator ground,,, or a faulty regulator,,, then with the [F] post still grounded jump the [A] post at the generator to the [BAT] terminal at the regulator,,, if it charges then you have a bad voltage regulator or broken wire from the [A] post to the regulator,,,,,

~If still no charge, shut the tractor off & remove both wires & the belt from the generator,,, then jump battery power from the [BAT] terminal on the regulator to the [A] post on the generator, {it should motor},, then with it motoring short the [F] post to ground, it should still motor but slow down� If it doesn"t motor you have generator problems like stuck brushes, dirty commutator, open in a wire, or open or shorted armature. If it motors & doesn"t slow down you have field problems like stuck field brush, or open in field circuit.

~If it doesn�t pass the motoring test pull the generator apart & look for oxidation on the commutator, or stuck brushes..

~In a lot of cases once you motor it will start charging afterwards�


**I see in your above post you adjusted the generator�s 3rd brush? Make sure you have turned it in the generator�s rotational direction as far as possible & not the other way.. If turned away from generator rotation it won�t produce much power when using a regulator..

~Any questions just post back or E-Mail me @

[email protected]

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Mike M

08-06-2004 09:33:15




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 Re: Ampmeter never moves to postive charge side of in reply to 46 B, 08-06-2004 06:38:36  
A couple of things I would recommend.
1-Take the gen. and reg. to someone who can bench test them together and adjust them if needed.This will take all the guess work out of it. Is it or isn't it working ? You will know for sure.A bench test shouldn't cost more than $5 or $10
2- If it works and is not putting out enough amps.
sometimes those third arms have a stop pin in the end housing that needs to be removed to get that brush over to within 1 1/2 bars on the comutator of that other brush for max. output.

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John T

08-06-2004 08:08:11




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 Re: Ampmeter never moves to postive charge side of in reply to 46 B, 08-06-2004 06:38:36  
Good Morning 46B, I can answer your question and, hopefully, get her genning, but I want to guide you through the process one step at a time, so here goes:


(A) PRELIMINARY AND QUESTIONS

1) Was the Generator working before with the old original light switch and cutout relay system?? If so, theres a good chance you have a regulator or wiring problem and the Generator is okay. When you adjusted the third brush, I hope you didnt break or short out any wires???

2) Are you sure the new Voltage Regulator (VR) is the correct voltage AND is compatible with your ground (+ or -)??? Some are bi polar and will work either way, others may NOT. The VR and Gen BOTH need a good ground, is the VR well bonded to the Gen or anywhere?? Your tractor was originally Positive ground, is it still that way??

3) Is the ammeter wired correct?? The battery supply side should have but ONE WIRE which is hot ungrounded battery supply voltage (often via the starter post) while the other load side is what goes down to the BAT terminal on the VR PLUS feeds loads like light or ignition switches (often 2 wires on that load side of ammeter). The original load side of the ammeter would have had 2 wires, one to the light switch and other to the BAT side of the old cutout relay and the hot battery supply side just the one. If you had the wrong side of the ammeter wired down to the BAT on the VR, it wouldnt indicate the charge going into the batery. When you switched from a relay to a 4 wire VR system, the wire that feeds the switch (used to be off ammneters load side) would now instead be fed from the LOAD terminal on a 4 wire VR yet the wire down to BAT on the VR is the same that used to be down to the BAT side of the cutout relay. You wired tha way????

4) Make sure the belt is good n tight and not glazed and make sure BOTH the Gen and VR are well grounded, it sounds like your wired correct??

ARM terminal on VR (often off bottom or one side all by itself) to ARM post (larger of the 2) on the Generator.

FLD terminal on VR to Gens Field post.

BAT on VR up to load (NOT to battery) side of ammeter. IT MUST ALWAYS READ HOT BATTERY VOLTAGE to work, does yours????? ?

LOAD terminal on a 4 wire VR feeds loads like lights n ignition etc. On the old cutout relay those would have been fed off the ammeters load side, same place where wire to BAT side of relay was wired.

5) POLARIZED: When you flash jumped a wire from the VR's BAT terminal over to its ARM terminal, did you get a small spark???? If not, MAKE SURE the BAT terminal on the VR is always hot battery voltage, it has to be and should be fed of the ammeters load terminal. BOTH sides of the ammeter should always show hot battery voltage, does yours??? Does your VR's BAT terminal always read hot???? Try to temporarily ground the Gens Field post dead to case ground and see if when you polarize she sparks then, if so, see if she charges then?? If no spark when you polarized and BAT terminal was hot, the Field path is not continuous (VR or Gen not grounded or bad Field).

7) BATTERY, you gotta have a good battery capable of accepting a charge, Is yours good or has it been load tested??? Is there electrolyte above all the plates and none have a gray or milky appearance??? A bad battery may not take charge even if the gen works !!!!! !!!!


(B) TROUBLESHOOTIGN TO SEE IF ITS A GEN OR VR PROBLEM:

1) Belt must be tight,,,,, Gen and VR both grounded,,,,, ,,BAT terminal on VR must be hot and ammeter wired corect and continuous (BOTH terminals always hot),,,,, ,,,Polarized correct (you got the spark????).

2) Start tractor and see if she now charges?? Even if ammeter were bad and never swung to charge,,,,, at RPM if shes charging the batterys voltage should rise from 6.3 to 6.8 to near 7 volts and the lights should glow brighter, do yours????

3) While running ground the Gens Field to case and see if she charges then????? ? If so, the VR may be bad (wrong polarity maybe??),,,,, or the wires bad from Field on Gen to FLD on VR,,,,, ,,,,or the VR may not be well grounded.

4) If still no charge, leave Field grounded and by pass jump the VR's BAT and ARM terminals together, if she charges then, the VR may be bad or wrong polarity or the circuits incomplete from BAT on VR up to load side of ammeter.

5) With the Field grounded and the ARM and BAT on VR jumped together if she still dont charge despite good grounds and a good belt and a correct wired working ammeter,,,,, ,the Gen must not be putting out. Maybe you shorted or broke a wire when moving the third brush????? ?

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION: If the ammeter works and is wired correct and the battery is good but no charge, YES you may have a bad Gen (maybe shorted or broke a wire when adjusting brush) or VR (maybe wrong ground or mis wired)

SUMMARY, Check for a good ground on Gen and VR,,,,, ,,good tight belt and BAT on VR is hot,,,,, ,,,,POLARIZE with the Gens Field post grounded and get a spark????,,,,, Do the Field ground and VR by pass tests above,,,,, if still no charge and the ammeter is continuous and works,,,,, ,the Gen isnt workign assuming your batery is capable of acceptign a charge.

Tytpical Gen problems may be a short or broke wire inside or the brushes are worn low or the hold down springs arent pushing brushes tight down against the commutator (air n clean n WD 40 may cure) or the armatures grounded. Insure the wirings correct, the ammeter is wired as I said, and post back your findings and any questioins or e mail me at [email protected].

You may luck out and just need to polarize with a dead grounded Field or a ground may be bad or maybe the VR isnt compatible with your ground or the ammeters miswired and not reading the Gens output???

Good Luck n God Bless

John T

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46 B

08-06-2004 06:49:37




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 Clarifying the flipping the light switch comment! in reply to 46 B, 08-06-2004 06:38:36  
The needle swings further into the discharge section of the gauge, comes back and stays in the discharge section of ampmeter gauge all the time whether the lights are turned on or off. Can the ampmeter needle be off a few degrees and read incorrectly or is the generator not producing a current?



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