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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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G Deere and Late model A Deere?

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BB

06-06-2004 19:54:11




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What are the diffrences in the Late A models and the G Deere. The Chart I looked at show the two very close in horsepower.

BB




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Randy

06-08-2004 05:04:31




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 Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to BB, 06-06-2004 19:54:11  

I have a 49 G .125 over M&W 's and a 52 A with 6-3 powerblock, the G will walk over the A on a hard pullin Ohio red knob with 3-14's . The A pulls great but the G is just way to much for smaller A



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dw

06-07-2004 08:05:15




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 Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to BB, 06-06-2004 19:54:11  
My brother-in-law, who was a John Deere mechanic for about fifty years, said a 70 JD had no business in the field with a G after the G had been equiped with high compression components. He enjoyed every part of working on JD tractors.



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G-MAN

06-07-2004 10:25:46




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 Re: Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to dw, 06-07-2004 08:05:15  
That's probably true for a gasoline "70", but the all-fuel "70" had the same 6.125 x 7.000/412.5 inch engine as the "G", with the added benefit of duplex carburetion. I believe the gearing also remained the same, with the "70" keeping the two-stick transmission while the "50" and "60" went to the single-stick. I currently have a "70" all-fuel apart in the shop. It's going back together with .125" over aluminum high-comp pistons, a re-ground cam and worked-over carb from Robert's, an M&W cold manifold set-up and a few other little goodies. I can't wait to get her on the dyno and see what she makes.

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CMB

06-07-2004 18:28:10




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 Re: Re: Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to G-MAN, 06-07-2004 10:25:46  
Don't want to make outlandish predictions, but I'll bet she'll make somewhere between 55 & 60!!!!! !!!!!



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Deere John 2004

06-07-2004 08:50:55




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 Re: Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to dw, 06-07-2004 08:05:15  
That's really no great suprise, the "G" had a 412.5 CID engine, the "Gas 70" a 379.5 CID engine. If the "high compression components" included M&W aluminum pistons, all bets are off. My uncle put M&Ws in his "G" and his power was unbelievable, of course he also claimed you needed a gas truck and a parts truck nearby. His gas consumption went from 3+ gal./hr. to 5+ gal./hr.; he put 3 1/2 'twists' in his 2 row chopper PTO shaft and he once "scored" a piston choking the engine to start it.

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CMB

06-07-2004 06:17:48




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 Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to BB, 06-06-2004 19:54:11  
Oops! At the bottom of my last post, I meant to say 5th in an "A" rather than 4th not being fast enough to do a good job with a harrow or rotary hoe. In addition, we had, (still have as a matter of fact) a "60" with a "power block". In the field,it wouldn't keep up with my "G", with aluminum pistons, though it WAS better on fuel. Again, simply a matter of "torque"!



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CMB

06-07-2004 05:57:09




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 Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to BB, 06-06-2004 19:54:11  
I guess I'll play the "devils advocate" here. I started farming with a styled "G". As someone else stated, the late "A"s were mostly gas burners from the factory, & their rated horsepower was about the same as an "all fuel" "G", which all were from the factory.(Yes I've heard the stories about a few "G"s with only one fuel tank, & high compression pistons& a "Cold" manifold straight from Waterloo, but have never talked to anyone who has actually SEEN one!)Anyway, rated HP has very little to do with field performance, torque is what accomplishes work, & even a "stock "G" wins this hands down over an "A". When you convert a "G" to a gas burner,(& yes they DO like thier fuel, but at 14 cents a gal, we didn't lose a lot of sleep over that) an "A" isn't even close, as a "G" is a bigger heavier machine ,& makes use of more power without adding a lot of additional weight. As far as the gearing is concerned, I've found that 1st. in a late "A" is virtually usless for anything except maybe pulling a baler or pull type combine. If you have to go this slow for power, all you will do is spin your wheels. On the other hand the "G"s gears are much more suitable for actual tillage operations(3rd is used most, but 4th also, & very occaisionally 2nd). I don't EVER remember actually using 1st in the field with a "G"(this is the same as 2nd in a late "A"),& actually 4th & 5th were VERY useful in the "G". Forth was almost always used when cultivating Corn the last time with a four row, front mount culitvator. Fifth was used to pull a "rotary hoe" or spike tooth harrows & of course 6th is "road gear". "Actually, I've rotary hoe'd in 6th a time or two on fairly level land, & longer(1/2 mile) rows. Forth in a late "A" is simply not fast enough to make these implements work properly. In my opinion when JD went to the "slow" gears they only repeated the same mistake that "IHC" made with the "H"s &"M"s twenty some years earlier.

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Deere John 2004

06-07-2004 07:22:33




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 Re: Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to CMB, 06-07-2004 05:57:09  
Actually, at the time (1947) of the HP test that are being cited here, the transmissions of the "A" & "G" were relatively the same. 1st=2.5 mph, 2nd=3.5 mph, 3rd=4.5 mph; in 4th, the "G" was .75 mph faster, in 5th, the "G" was 1 mph faster, and in 6th, the "A" was .5 mph faster.
I believe that it was in the last 2 or 3 years of production that the "A" got John Deere's "new", "Creeper Low" transmission which slower all the gears down by 1-2 mph (actually, it was the transmission that the "60" came with as "Standard"). This all assumes that you had the standard tires on each tractor [11-38 on the "A", 12-38 on the "G"]. Our "G" had 13-38s on it, which speeded up all the gears considerably. On the road, we could almost keep-up with IH's "H"s & "M"s [15 mph].
This very "discussion" continued when the "60"s & "70"s came out, even though their HP ratings were different (38.58 HP for the "60", 45.88 HP for the "Gas 70"). Our neighbor had both a "60 and a "Gas 70"; we had a "70 Diesel" which had very different torque rise characteristics from the "Gas 70". The neighbor would plow with both tractors in the same field, pulling 3-16s. He always said, "The "60" can keep right up with the "70"; well, until you hit a 'tough spot', then the "70" walks away from the "60". Sure is great reliving old glories and re-hashing old "coffee-break" arguments.

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Mike F

06-06-2004 22:35:18




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 Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to BB, 06-06-2004 19:54:11  
Lets say the tractors are both relatively stock, the late A should beat the G pulling if the A is weighted the same as the G, it is alot lighter than the G, I have had both and would take a late A or 60 any day over the bulkiness of a G, plus its parts are harder and more $$ to get, they make a good modified puller, but the A is my favorite. You just cant beat the gearing on the late A. Also the A will steer alot easier for everyday use.

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Pappy

06-06-2004 21:42:34




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 Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to BB, 06-06-2004 19:54:11  
Good information already posted, but I have one more consideration. I own a '50 "G" and a '52 "A",which is a gasoline burner. They both pull well, but the "A" is geared more suitably for plowing and field work. The "G" is just tooooo fast, therefore, it doesn't pull as well in third or fourth gear. I actually believe the "A" will out pull the "G" in third and fourth gear. On the "G", I don't know what fifth and sixth gear would be good for. Way too fast.

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Ralph

06-07-2004 20:09:46




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 Re: Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to Pappy, 06-06-2004 21:42:34  
I agree. Our 46 A in fourth gear is plenty fast for dragging, the '50 AR about matches it in fifth on the drag. I have tried the 860 Ford in fifth, but the drag spends too much time in the air.



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Duane Larson

06-06-2004 20:21:09




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 Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to BB, 06-06-2004 19:54:11  
BB,
Yes, the HP rating is close, but the G has about 90 more cubic inches and 1/4" longer stroke. This translates into more torque, and if you start burning gasoline (lots of it) the G leads in HP.

I made the same observation about A-G HP about 10 years ago at a get-together back in Wisconsin where I grew up to see what the response was. Several chuckles, and something to the effect "well son, that may be what the books say, but when the going gets tough on a clay knoll, the G will walk away from any A". One old farmer had owned an A with a power block and he thought that was about the same as a stock G, and several agreed that was probably the case.

Most of these old fellows I spoke with have passed on now - and along with them a lot of great stories about the tractors we collect. It is one thing to parade them around and know all the details about their construction and history and have folks admire them - but a totally different experience to sit on the seat year after year farming with one!

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Paul

06-06-2004 19:58:29




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 Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to BB, 06-06-2004 19:54:11  
the a was gas and the g was all fuel on the tests you are looking at.Paul



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Deere John 2004

06-07-2004 06:07:15




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 Re: Re: G Deere and Late model A Deere? in reply to Paul, 06-06-2004 19:58:29  
Paul is right about the test HP based on Nebraska Tractor Test # 383 (G 36.03HP), Test # 384 (A 35.81 HP). The G is burning Tractor Fuel, The A is burning Gasoline. To get an idea of the HP difference between Tractor Fuel & Gasoline; Test # 380(Gasoline B 24.46 HP) & Test # 381(Tractor Fuel B 22.17 HP) show the difference. As I remember it, at the time they were produced, guys who owned "A"s, liked them better than the "G"s; and guys who owned "G"s liked them better then "A"s. Either it was a matter of what you got used to, or, "What I've got is better then what you've got." Things haven't changed much, have they.

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