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Clooney: Hardener - isn't it strange?

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leon

03-06-2004 03:42:47




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A couple of days ago we exchanged posts regarding paint hardener. Isn't it strange that no where on the JD Classic Green paint can nor JD spec sheet that I picked up with it can I find the word "synthetic" describing the enamel? I find "Alkyd Enamel, Lead Free" and "A high gloss, durable, conventional solids enamel", but not synthetic!

Further isn't it strange that I know a guy who uses Transtar, Autobodies Technologies, Inc., 8078 Wet Look Acrylic Enamel Catalyst in JD Classic Green Enamel and gets a really beautiful, wet look, paint job. Should an Acrylic enamel catalyst work as a hardener in a synthetic enamel? It sure seems to!

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Clooney

03-06-2004 06:23:47




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 Re: Clooney: Hardener - isn't it strange? in reply to leon, 03-06-2004 03:42:47  
Leon, the term synthetic enamel pretty well covers the alkyd based paints,, alkyd is a synthetic resin widely used in the manufacture of cheaper paints. On the other hand acrylic enamel is a different resin based paint.

~I'm no paint expert so all I know is what I personally know & work with.. The synthetic [alkyd based] paints are on the low end of the modern paint technology. They are relatively cheap to purchase & do shine good for a while & are mostly used for equipment or industrial painting.. The acrylic enamels use a different acrylic resin that dries much harder, the acrylic's are also more durable.. Most acrylic or synthetic enamels will air dry just fine if given enough time & oxygen..

~You say... Quote: "Further isn't it strange that I know a guy who uses Transtar, Autobodies Technologies, Inc., 8078 Wet Look Acrylic Enamel Catalyst in JD Classic Green Enamel and gets a really beautiful, wet look, paint job. Should an Acrylic enamel catalyst work as a hardener in a synthetic enamel? It sure seems to"....>>>Answ. I can't answer that question based on any great paint knowledge but in my experience & due to the chemical differences between synthetic [alkyd] & acrylic enamels I doubt there is much chemical linking of acrylic enamel hardener to the synthetic paints.. If there was a gain to be had the paint manufacturers wouldn't be selling or recommending different types of hardeners for the different based paints.. I have heard other opinions that using acrylic wet look hardener in the synthetic paints make them shinny .. I don't doubt that,, that but you have to remember that painting synthetic enamel with a high quality synthetic reducer will also make it flow out better & leave it shinier [just don't confuse hardener & hard paint with shinny paint,, it's the drying times & chemical link up for durability that the hardener effects] ....I have used expensive urethane paint reducer [that's a very fine grade of reducer] when I have run out of synthetic reducer & that also leaves a very shinny Deere paint.. In my opinion [take that for what it's worth] using an expensive acrylic enamel wet look hardener in synthetic enamel is not gaining anything & it's just a very expensive fine reducer.. Now there could be an additive in the "wet look" hardeners that promote better flow out & gloss over but as far as a better hardener? I doubt it even hardens the synthetic's at all..

~The absolute BEST advice I can give you is to call the paint hot line or Tec line of the paint product you are working with & get their advise. Most paint companies will tell you not to mix their products , or mix their product with other's products..

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Mark G

03-06-2004 05:22:17




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 Re: Clooney: Hardener - isn't it strange? in reply to leon, 03-06-2004 03:42:47  
Leon,
If you'll allow me to jump into this conversation, I'll give you my $.02 as a former paint seller and mixer for NAPA.
We carried a full line of products for all major types of auto paints.
Our synthetic enamel hardener was different than that used for acrylic enamel, although I did have several customers who used it interchangeably with good results.
There is (was) a definate "ladder" of auto/vehicle paints in both quality and price which I'll list below.

1.water-based basecoat/clearcoat paints
2.urethane basecoat/clearcoat paints
3.acrylic enamels
4.synthetic enamels
5.alkyd enamels

Alkyds were considered "machinery" paints, and thus much less expensive.
That being said, we sold lots of alkyd and synthetic enamels to farmers and heavy equipment operators who appreciated the low cost and good durability of these products.
My personal feeling is that good 'ol acrylic enamel is adequate for probably 98% of all paint needs and is the best balance between cost and durability.
Any of these paint types will require like-products such as the proper reducers and hardeners for the paint type being used.
Good results can be achieved with any of them when mixed and applied properly.
Hope I haven't muddied the waters too much with my response.
Mark G

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