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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Hooking up a Coil on Positive Ground

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BUDD (totally c

08-06-2003 17:26:03




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I have read all the past post about how to hook up a coil on positive ground tractor and I am more confused than ever. I do not understand all the reasoning behind this and to tell you the truth do not really care in a respectfully way. My tractor is a 49 "A", positive ground and I am installing a distributor. I also have a 45000 volt coil. I would like two simple answers, PLEASE.
1- Does the - side or the + side of the coil go to the distributor?
2- What volts does the distributor (Delco) need 6 or 12? All your help is needed and required for me to complete this project. Please try not to confuse this mind of mine any more. THANKS BUDD

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BUDD

08-07-2003 04:03:10




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 Re: Hooking up a Coil on Positive Ground in reply to BUDD (totally confused), 08-06-2003 17:26:03  
Clooney, John T;

Ok, I realy want to say that I understand completely, BUT. I understand DC wiring and some AC wirering, but this is so far over my head that I even got the ladder out and still could not get it LOL. I am picking up my coil tonight and will post back with the specs on it.

I greatly appreciate your patience and help with this matter. THANKS BUDD



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John T

08-07-2003 06:30:24




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 Re: Re: Hooking up a Coil on Positive Ground in reply to BUDD, 08-07-2003 04:03:10  
You're welcome Budd and hang in there and dont let go that ladder lol. To add even a lil more cornfusion maybe, regardless if that new coil is rated 40,000 or even 100,000 volts, it wont necessarily fire at any higher voltage than a lower voltage rated stock coil, all else being equal. Thats cuz the firing voltage necessary to arc curent across the plug gap is dependant mostly upon the gaps distance and the medium (compresion and fuel) in which it fires. The coils voltage only ramps up high enough to jump that gap and no higher, regardless if the coil is capable of puttign out 50,000 volts. Those high voltage high energy coils are designed so thay can ramp to a higher voltage necessary when you run a way wider plug gap and can be used on high energy solid state ignition systems that utilize higher current at higher voltages (wider plug gaps).

As I explained below, a limiting factor in the old coil/points ignitions is the current you can switch with mechanical switching contact points before they run too hot and arc too much and burn up. HOWEVER, with a solid state switch (uses a transistor like device to conduct and switch coil current), you dont have to worry about burning points and can run higher current and energy through a coil primary thereby discharging more energy (current x voltage) across the plugs gap (fatter, hotter, wider, more surface area current arc) to better ignite the fuel.

Actually, your new coils primary may be all wire and not even have any resistor ballast if its intended for a solid state switch only (just no way for me to know) in which case as I stated below, I would then wire it + to the distributor. Otherwise not knowing and to be safe, I had to advise it - to distributor. If the specs or any tech support people from the coil company can tell you about any internal coil ballast resistor (if it has one and where its wired internally), then we could answer your question.

John T

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John T (Long Post)

08-06-2003 21:43:09




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 Re: Hooking up a Coil on Positive Ground in reply to BUDD (totally confused), 08-06-2003 17:26:03  
Hey there Budd, Well, I will say right off Im sorry cuz I cant give you the simple answer youre looking for, but will still try my best to help you. The reason I can not give a simple answwer, is because I have no way of knowing if your coil, for one has an internal ballast, and if so, where it is physically wired inside. I am of the opinion (clooney and I shared e mails discussign this long ago) the ballast should be wired on the battery input side AND NOT between the primary output and the points and condensor, but not knowing where its at is the reason I cant definitely answer your question. However, I will take my best engineerign guesses and assumptions and tell you how I would wire it and why.

1) My best guess, since you say its a 45,000 volt coil, is that its for a high performance type auto ignition which is negative ground, and to be safe, I would wire it neg to the distributor. HOWEVER if I knew for sure it had no internal ballast (like if its near 3 ohms total with primary winding resistance only and no ballast), then I would wire it + to distributor which is how you wire an unballasted coil (like a 6 volt non internal ballasted coil) at pos ground.

I CAN ANSWER YOUR SECOND QUESTION BETTER.

2) You asked how many "volts" on the distributor, but thats not the right and valid question, cuz the distributor is a current (not a voltage) device that is a mechanical switch (points) which closes the conduction path so the coil can conduct current to ground when points are closed, then open the path when the points are opened. The correct question is how many "amps" can I allow to pass through the distributors ignition points (mechanical switch).

The basic answer (how much current through distributor) so the points do not prematurely burn out is around 4 amps give or take. That means on a 12 volt system, the total resistance of the coil plus any ballast (internal or external) is around 3 ohms. Some 12 volt JD's used a 6 volt coil (around 1.5 ohms) and a series ballast resistor which drops 6 volts leavign 6 across the coil as it was designed for. The voltage at the distributors input (lil side hook up terminal where coils primary output wire attaches) would be 6 or 12 volts (dependign if 6 or 12 v battery) when the points are open, then drop to zero when they are closed, since the points closing makes that point a dead ground. So, the disributor is basically the same, regardless if a 6 or 12 v battery, and its just a open/close current switch with the input voltage dependant upon what the battery voltage is.

I hope this un cornfuses you some Budd, post back or email any more questions.

Good Luck 2 ya and God Bless

John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Jedo

09-14-2003 12:35:45




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 Re: Re: Hooking up a Coil on Positive Ground in reply to John T (Long Post), 08-06-2003 21:43:09  
Coil question...my Honda tractor (single cylinder, 12volt, neg ground) went dead and am trying to revive it. No spark to plug. 'coil' is electronic. Only a very slight voltage appears to be coming out of 'coil'...and am reading only very slight voltage going in to the coil...indicating to me that the problem may be other than bad coil. What should the incoming voltage read ?



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Clooney

08-06-2003 17:51:34




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 Re: Hooking up a Coil on Positive Ground in reply to BUDD (totally confused), 08-06-2003 17:26:03  
Budd, there are few reasons depending on the coil construction that it could go one way or the other but here's the answer you want to hear.... Just hook it up with the negative terminal towards the distributor as that is more than likely the coil design & seeing as it is a 45,000 KV coil it won't make any difference as you will have more power than you need either way.
~Now on that distributor it will work with either a 6 volt coil at a 6 volt supply , an internally resisted 12 volt coil at 12 volts , or a 12 volt un-resisted coil with an external ballast resistor between the ignition switch & the coil. [bottom line,, the distributor input voltage MUST be kept below about 7 volts either with a resistor, a resisted coil, OR 6 volt battery on a 6 volt coil.
~The points in the distributor can't handle more than about 6-7 volts for long without burning up. If the coil is new the coil it should have the resistor information written on the coil case, or at least on the box or directions it came with.
~If you don't understand the directions just post here what the coil case or box or instructions say & we will help you figure out what you need...
~I know this is still a little confusing but there is no simple answer without knowing EXACTLY what coil you are working with.
~Just post what you can, & what you don't understand, & we will help you through it....

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