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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Generator cutout Clooney or John T.

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Ken

08-02-2003 14:09:43




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I maybe should not even be doing the cutout thing. I was told that they would work instead of a regulator and for less cost. I have a 47 BO that I am restoring. I can't find anything on the generator tag that says 12V or 6V. I have a Tisco cutout and thought it could be just cut in to the line. I think I understand the first part of your explanation but the Field wire I assume will require a special light switch or a resistor in the line. I only will use the tractor for shows and parades. If I were to ground the field wire does the generator just put out more charge? Could it be done that way and get by? Thanks, Ken

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Clooney

08-04-2003 07:17:23




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 Re: Generator cutout Clooney or John T. in reply to Ken, 08-02-2003 14:09:43  
Ken, if you don't have an adjustable 3rd brush generator you will have a hard time making your system operate with just a cut-out relay. See if you can find a generator number on the case of your generator & E-Mail it to me, I will see if I have any info [specs] on your generator� Just grounding the generator�s [F] post will give you way to much generator output for your battery to live long.

~It will work with either a 6 volt or 12 volt generator but the cut-out relay [or regulator] MUST MATCH THE BATTERY VOLTAGE]. If a 6 volt generator is used on a 12 volt system you will have to rev the engine a little higher to get it to charge though.

~Really your best & safest option is to use a voltage regulator as that is an �install & forget system�. Without using an adjustable 3rd brush generator you will have a hard time controlling the base & lights on charge so you don�t cook your battery.

~You could try a set of resistors between generator�s field circuit & ground with a relay hooked to the light circuit to by-pass the resistors [or at least lower the resistance] with the lights on.

~In my opinion you probably have 2 workable choices. The first & recommended way would be to install & wire a 3 or 4 terminal voltage/current limiting voltage regulator� Or the second would be to use your cut-out relay in the wire from the generator�s [A] post to the ammeter�s NON BATTERY POST, then wire in a wire wound 0-10 [or 0-15] ohm, 5 amp variable rheostat in the dash panel [probably obtainable from Radio shack] between the generator�s field post & a good chassis ground. That would allow you to watch the ammeter & adjust the charging current to suit your present needs. Problem is: you would only have to forget to adjust that charging current once & the price of a new battery would more than offset the price of a proper voltage regulator.

~If you want to use a real current/voltage regulator just E-Mail me with the number of terminals on the regulator & I will draw you up a wire diagram for your specific tractor�.
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John T

08-04-2003 05:38:02




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 Re: Generator cutout Clooney or John T. in reply to Ken, 08-02-2003 14:09:43  
Hi Ken, I just got back from a weekend outing so just now gettign caught up.

First, do you have a 6 or a 12 volt battery in the tractor??? cuz you need to buy a matching voltage cut out relay. Its job is to close when the gens voltage is higher than the battery so it can charge it, but open otherwise like if the tractor is off so the battery dont reverse discharge through the generator.

Next, your tractor was originally positive ground, so the cut out relay has to either be a positive ground model or a bi polar type which is reversible and works on either (+ or - ground) which its labeling or instructions show how to wire for either. The bi polar reversible models just get reverse wired one way or the other to suit + or - ground systems.

Third, it will wire with one terminal "maybe" marked BAT (on original for + grnd JD) to the load (non battery) side of the ammeter and the other terminal "maybe" marked ARM or GEN to the armature (larger of the 2) posts on the generator and its mounting to a good ground. Or it may be marked like + and - and have instructions how to wire for what ground system you have. The wire to charge the battery (the non to gen wire) has to be connected to the battery so it can charge it, with the usual path to and through the ammeter, then the starter post, so be sure thers hot battery voltage on the relays BAT side at all times when you find the wire that atatches to it (should lead to load (non battery) side of ammeter if it has an ammeter, or to batetry or starter post otherwise.

On most cut out relay type systems, the generators current output is controlled by how good a ground you attach to the generators field (smaller of the 2) posts with a dead ground for high charge when lights are on but via a resistor to ground for low charge when lights are off. Thats done by using a dual purpose light and field ground type switch.

Also, many of those generators are three brush types with adjustable current output dependign on how close you adjust the third brush to the one on its same side.

NOW as far as dead groundign the field as you asked via a switch to ground, its true that will cause max charge, but overcharging a battery is bad, can ruin it, plus over flow acid out the top. If you wanted to go to the trouble of watchign an ammeter and/or had a voltmeter also installed, you may be able to dead ground teh field for periods then open it by manually switching and keep the battery charged but not overchargre it, but thats your choice and decision even though I cant recommend it.

The best method is to install a true full fledged 3 wire Voltage Regulator, either an original type for a + ground JD system or one (generic type) for a + ground if youre at positive ground, or a bi polar type that works on either. Then install and polarize it and your good to go. Be sure the belt is good and tight, the gen and relay or VR well grounded, wiring is right.

Good Luck, God Bless, and post back any more questions.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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