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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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JD 300B Backhoe operating temperature question

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John

07-23-2003 21:57:02




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We have a 73 300B backhoe with diesel engine. What is a typical operating temperature for this engine? I put a new gauge, new thermostat, cleaned radiator, etc. I can't get it above 150F no matter how hard we work it even when its 70F out. I checked the block temp with a non-contact thermometer and its about 160 when the gauge is at about 140-150F. During the winter it won't even get above 100-105F. I also measured the exhaust manifold temp with the non-contact and the hottest temp I could get was about 275-300F after working it. All three cylinders read the same. I'm not a diesel expert, but I expected much hotter temps, say 500-600?? Is this normal for this machine or isn't it getting enough (or too much) fuel? The machine runs fine, does the job, but I am worried about cylinder wear, etc. with the cold temp. I checked the new thermostat before installing it and it was on the money. I did put a new fuel transfer pump on it and cleaned out the whole fuel system except for the pencil filter in the bottom of the tank. Thank you in advance for any help or suggestions anyone might be able to provide.

John

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Lee

07-26-2003 00:55:24




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 Re: JD 300B Backhoe operating temperature question in reply to John, 07-23-2003 21:57:02  
In all of the numbers you quoted you left out the temp of the thermostat that you put in. Summer time temps sound just about right but winter temps should be warmer. Almost sounds like the bleed hole in the thermostat is too big or a gasket prevents it from closing the last 1/16"? Today's auto's run 190 mainly for emissions reasons where 160 is better for a longer life with better oil viscosity/lubrication. The main wear factor in engines has long been touted as cold running due to clearances being tighter - but that is not the case, clearances are always looser at cold temps than at warm. Cast iron block shrinks/expands less due to heat change than any other common material used in engines so piston/bore clearance is greater at 30 than at 130. Real reason for 'cold wear' is acid condensation inside the cylinder getting into the oil and being pumped around into those clearances eating away at them and your cylinders. A hot cup of coffee has no condensation on the outside of the cup, but a cold beer does - so the critical temp is much lower than one is lead to believe. At 160 degree water temp the inside of the cylinder is at least 20 degrees hotter due to thermal resistance of cast iron to conduct heat. In my opinion, 160 is plenty hot enough to prevent acid condensation. I'd try some cardboard over the raditor in winter and never give it another thought. But you could put in a 190 degree thermostat with the bleed hole soldered shut if you wanted to be absolutely sure and it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit. It's obvious from the current setup that you don't have a problem with the raditator getting rid of heat.

One reason you are not seeing the expected temps at the exhaust manifold is that the engine is not running full out even if you work it as hard as you can. Not anything like an irrigation motor let's say, now those things have manifolds you can read a book by at night. If you can figure out how to load a backhoe like a farmer can load an irrigation engine let me know, I'd like to watch that (from a very safe distance). Seriously, the hydraulic pump is likely undersized to the engine's hp rating to keep it from outright killing it just when you need it the most. So you can never really load it hard as it can stand anyway.

Too little or too much fuel for a good running diesel? No, impossible situation. With good injectors spraying a good pattern, the more fuel you put in means the more power you get out from idle on up. Engine RPM and power output will match exactly the amount of fuel you put in it via the injection pump. They normally run excessively lean except when loaded very hard and putting out black smoke due to the load. Injector pumps are typically matched to the engine such that black smoke is minimal at even extreme loading (hot-rodding execpted). Black smoke at sudden throttle opening is due mainly to turbo lag than anything else.

Just my thoughts, hope it helps.

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John

07-26-2003 23:06:43




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 Re: Re: JD 300B Backhoe operating temperature ques in reply to Lee, 07-26-2003 00:55:24  
Lee,

It looks like my response from earlier today didn't get posted, I must have clicked the wrong box. Anyway, I want to repeat my thanks to you for taking the time to give us your thoughts.

You put me on the right track with the thermostat comment. As it turns out the thermostat was ok (its a 180F, by the way.) But the suggestion of leakage got me thinking and I realized that the previous owner installed a block heater in such a way that allowed the block heater and the hoses to form a by-pass of the thermostat. The one side leaves the drain port in the back of the block and the other side was piped into a nipple inserted into the top radiator hose, after the stat. I pinched it off with a pair of vice-grips and the temp almost immediately shot right up to the thermostat setting and remained right there. I think it's solved. Now I just have to pipe the block heater correctly and we'll be good to go. It looks like there is another pipe plug just above where the rear block drain goes, and I believe this is the correct place to put the other line from the block heater as it won't bypass the thermostat. Does anyone know if this is the factory location for the other line?

Thanks again, Lee.

John

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Lee

07-28-2003 01:43:54




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 Re: Re: Re: JD 300B Backhoe operating temperature in reply to John, 07-26-2003 23:06:43  
You are most welcome, I'm glad I was able to help. I'd agree, it sure sounds like you found the entire problem, but I would look to the head for a place to plumb in the upper block heater hose if possible. The more vertical distance you can get with one of those, the more water they flow which means a more even and general heating that takes place. If you've got a cab and a heater in the cab then you should be able to tap into the that line as it leaves the head for the cab? And turning off the heater water flow in the cab would allow the block heater to heat just the engine instead of both the cab and the engine.

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