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JD450C leak

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Byron Schrader

06-25-2003 10:47:17




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Hi All, I need help finding the source of a leak on my JD450C. I've had the leak since I bought the machine but it's got worse and it's just time to deal with it. I lose transmission fluid and it winds up wetting down the track plates just below the finals covers but the source of the leak isn't apparent. Looking from the bottom, the finals housing is wet all over. It looks like oil is coming form the junction between the clutch and final housings. I once heard about a common leak on these models that is fixed by a procedure in the manual. It describes how to remove the bleed hose from the clutch manifold and this creates a common sump between the transmission and clutch cavities. Well, I got the covers off the clutch housings and there was no bleed hose. It seems my clutch has been replaced with the newer design which doesn't use the bleed hose. I also discovered that the bolts and jam nuts were missing from the clutch manifolds. The manual describes intalling these so I'm concerned that they are missing. Actually, the parts book describes the bolts as a lenght to long to install them with the clutch in the housings. So, my questions are:
1) What is the "common leak" on these as relates to the fix in the manual and what exactly is happening?
2) Where can I get better learning material on how this thing works? I've got the manuals but it seems I still need to disassemble in order to understand it. I just don't know how the the trans/clutch hydraulic system works. 3) What does the missing bolt do? Can it be releasing fluid and causing an overfill/leak? Thanks for any help. This is my first major repair and I'm stumped. [email protected]

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Jonathan

06-25-2003 18:36:45




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 Re: JD450C leak in reply to Byron Schrader, 06-25-2003 10:47:17  
I'll give it a try. Look at the machine from the rear. In the center is the transmission case.Bolted to either side of this are the steering clutch housings. They contain the steering clutches and brake bands. The steering clutches are engaged with pressure oil and that conveys power to the final drives. During normal operation when the steering clutch is engaged (driving straight ahead) there is a certain amount of leakage fromm the steering clutches. This leakage keeps the steering clutch housings full of oil to the level of that small hole that lets oil flow back into the center transmission case. The normal oil level of the clutch housings is just about at the level of the fill plugs which are on the outside of the clutch housing drilled diagonally just above the top of the final drive housing. 1 inch pipe plugs with 1/2 inch square drive recess in them . The oil level in the clutch housings is a few inches above the full level as read on the transmission dipstick. Outboard of the steering clutch housings are the final drive housings. They have their own oil level which is checked at the pipe plugs on the fron and rear of the final drive housing.They are usually peened over and are difficult to remove to check. This oil level is much lower than the steering clutch oil level. A common leakage point is the joint where the final drives mount against and to the steering clutch housuing. If the bolts are loose and/or broken it will leak as the only seal is a film of what is referred to as "plastic gasket" It is a loctite product that forms a gasket between the machined surfaces of the two housings and cures in the absence of air.To repair it , the final drives have to be removed. break the tracks, remove sprocket, remove final drive. Another area that leaks is the pan on the bottom of the fianal drives. Clean it well and inspect for leaks more closely. That bolt that is missing is supposed to keep the steering clutch drum from wandering back and forth on the splined shafts it rides on. I'm not sure if there is enough room to pry the drum all the way inward to install the bolt, or if the clutch assembly has to be removed to install the bolt to its maximum depth, and then backed out once it is reinstalled. If this helps, good...if not , feel free to throw some more questions at me...

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Byron Schrader

06-26-2003 06:58:04




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 Re: Re: JD450C leak in reply to Jonathan, 06-25-2003 18:36:45  
Thanks very much Jonathan. I see the flow now. I'm still a little puzzled by the function of the bolts but I think I understand from you that it's got nothing to do with oil flow. The dozer works great, just leaks like crazy. I'm going to show up at a JD shop and ask nicely to see some new clutch parts so I can understand the bolt's function. The manual's instruction for this confuses me. It talks about the head of the bolt contacting the quill of a bearing as it is screwed out, then it's screwed in a turn. Makes no sense to me. As the bolt is screwed out the head would move closer to the casing toward the transmission. Anyway, back to the leak. I believe I may have all the leaks you described. I'm now attempting to remove the pan to get a complete view of things. One of the back bolts is so far stronger than me or my tools so I'm getting some better 6 point sockets today.
After I get the pan off I'll clean things again. It does seem like oil comes from the junction between the final and clutch boxes. It also looks like one final cover is leaking a little but I think most is coming from higher up. This is happening both sides. I knew sooner or later I would be pulling tracks! I've got a neighbor who used to service equipment and I'll get his help when that comes up. I guess I'll have to reassemble the top of the dozer first in order to accomplish track removal. Should be a great adventure. Thanks, Byron

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Jonathan

06-26-2003 17:29:44




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 Re: Re: Re: JD450C leak in reply to Byron Schrader, 06-26-2003 06:58:04  
If you jack up the machine and support the track frames slightly off of the ground you should be able to rotate the tracks to get at the master pin to remove it. A large prybar will turn the sprockets.



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Byron Schrader

07-10-2003 08:25:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD450C leak in reply to Jonathan, 06-26-2003 17:29:44  
Hi Jonathan, It seems I have several leaks. On the left side it looks certain that fluid is seeping between the junction of the final and clutch box. On the right that doesn't seem to be the situation but it looks like the final itself must be leaking on the output shaft as the inside of the sprocket is coated with muck and the left sprocket is dry and clean. And, yes I've got a minor leak out the PTO seal as well. Another clue was revealed when I drained the finals. On the left, the oil looked as if it had been there a while, not bad just well used. On the right final, the oil was fresh. This brings up another question. From this it would seem that the final on the right is being filled with oil from the clutch box (which is being filled by the transmission). So, I guess the seal between the clutch and final is also shot. I'm in the process of tearing things down. Out of curiousity, I priced the final output seal kit from JD and it was near $200! Are there aftermarket sources for parts like that? Thanks very much. Byron

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