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430 starter problems

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Larry G

06-07-2003 18:05:52




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I uncovered my restored 430W today to prepare for a parade next week. I checked everything over, charged battery and installed, flipped switch and hit starter and nothing. Put booster on battery and starter just hums and pegs meter. I took starter loose and it turns fine. When I hook a battery to it direct it just pegs meter but does nothing. It worked fine when I covered it last fall. Any ideas? I'm assuming it may have developed a short, but where do I look?

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Craig-MN

06-08-2003 22:33:52




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 Re: 430 starter problems in reply to Larry G, 06-07-2003 18:05:52  
Clean (scrape and sand paper) all the non-conductive black oxide off of the positive battery post and cable end (inside where it clamps to the battery post). It will probably work fine then. That black oxide stuff is HARD like a rock. Once you get through it to the shiny and soft lead you will know it. Many people do not realize that hard black oxide coating is there. Often they just manage to polish up that hard oxide stuff. It is non-conductive and needs to be removed.
A battery booster will not operate a starter by itself. It is only putting out pulsing DC voltage, not a constant DC voltage like a battery.
A battery booster only helps a somewhat weak or rundown battery. It is not made to work with a completely dead battery. It will not start or crank an engine all by itself.

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Dan

06-08-2003 08:54:26




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 Re: 430 starter problems in reply to Larry G, 06-07-2003 18:05:52  
Great posts already on this, If the starter won't turn with it off hooked to a batery there is a definite problem in the starter. If it worked before it was stored, perhaps it just got sticky over the winter. Probably need to take it apart. Not any rocket science inside. I think the only problem I have ever had with my 430 starter was when the rear bearing went bad and broke the back plate on the starter. I converted mine to 12 volts with an alternator several years ago as it never cranked over very fast.

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Clooney

06-08-2003 06:02:27




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 Re: 430 starter problems in reply to Larry G, 06-07-2003 18:05:52  
Larry, those 40-430's have a tendency to jamb the starter drive in the flywheel teeth [especially after sitting a while].
~That might explain the original problem, but wouldn't explain the starter's refusal to operate when pulled loose from the tractor. What kind of "booster" are you using?.... If just using a battery charger it might not have enough direct DC power to spin that starter, especially if you have the optional heavy duty starter.
~Try using a KNOWN GOOD 6 volt battery, or you can even jump to it with a 12 volt battery for a test.
~There isn't much that will go wrong with those Dubuque starters as they don't use a solenoid & the starter switch is kind of direct battery power to the starter input stud.
~With the starter out of the tractor, it's case will need to have a good CLEAN connection to the battery non grounded post to operate correctly. ~If the starter won't motor using a known good 6 volt or even a 12 volt BATTERY, suspect a dirty commutator, stuck brush or, short in either the windings or the input stud under the starter switch.
~If it worked good when stored & not now my guess would be a low battery, or corroded battery cable, or corroded cable connection. Those 6 volt systems can't afford to give up any current to poor connections.

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John T

06-08-2003 04:23:11




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 Re: 430 starter problems in reply to Larry G, 06-07-2003 18:05:52  
Larry, The thigns I'm unsure of are the condition of the battery and what rating or type is that "booster" you described. A bad battery can indeed cause the symptom you describe, and unless that booster is actually a booster/startign unit (I doubt if it is, they are big n heavy n expensive) a bad battery, even with a charger attached, can still cause your symptom. Insure the batterys electrolyte is full in each cell and that none have a gray or milky color. ALSO, a bad or carboned battery or starter or ground cable or terminal end (at battery or ground to frame or starter or solenoid connections) can cause it. When you by pass the switch or solenoid and hook the battery direct to the starting motors lug and assuming shes well grounded and the battery and cables are all good, if she dont crank, shes either bad or maybe the drive gear is stuck. However, if you removed and replaced her, she shouldnt be stuck, which leaves you with either a bad battery or starter or cable(s) or ground.

She came from the factory as positive ground, but regardless, she should still crank the starter if it and the battery is good and you by passed the switch or solenoid. Heres how I would proceed.

1) First, remove and clean and wire brush ALL battery terminal ends and ground connections and starter cable ends. Any of them bad or carboned up underneath or corroded can be the problem, and thats an easy no cost fix to try first. Also, wire brush the tractor and starter and mounting bolts to insure its well grounded. You might check where the ground cable is atttached to, cuz if theres rust or corrosion or carbon underneath, it can be the problem (especially where atatched to battery or seat box frames). You might run the ground cable direct down by the starter to a good solid heavy bolt to the frame, cuz I have seen bad grounds (especially in seat or battery box connections) cured that way.

2) Next try a different known good and charged battery or have that one load tested, cuz that might be the problem.

3) If the battery is good and ALL cables and cable ends and grounds are good and she still hums (especially if the switch or solenoid is by passed around), shes probably bad assumign the drive gear isnt in a bind. Try rocking it (the tractor) in high gear with the clutch engaged and loosening and re tightening the starter mount. It may just need its commutator cleaned/polished or its brushes may be worn down. If you remove and clean them out and polish the commutator (assumign the armature isnt shorted) it may cure your problem. Does it have that classic hot electrical smell??? If the armature is grounded, there will be continuity between the commutator and steel shaft as shown by a continuity checker or an ohmmeter.

In summary, check all cables and ends and grounds and connections first, then insure the battery is actually good (or try a different one) then if she still hums if direct jumped to the starter and shes not stuck, shes proabably bad. A bad solenoid can cause such problems, but thats NOT the problem if you by passed around it. A weak battery will usually make a solenoid chatter. If she starts by passed but any solenoid wont start her or it (solenoid) wont pull in, its bad.

Good Luck n God Bless

John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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Larry G

06-09-2003 07:05:35




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 Re: Re: 430 starter problems in reply to John T, 06-08-2003 04:23:11  
Thanks for all the good ideas. I was using a big charger- starting unit system on the battery when the starter hummed but wouldn't move. I finally took starter out and it turns freely. Flywheel also turns over. I will hook directly to the stud with a good 6 volt and see what happens, then will probably have to take apart. I felt that the starter must have a dead short if it does not turn at all but the meter is immediately pegged. I will try to check over today.

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