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6 volt battery , brand make a difference?

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KWB

06-01-2003 04:47:31




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I have a 720 that I use about 50 hours a year. I try to take reasonable care of the battery, keep the posts clean, water level up, keep it charged. The charging system checks out OK. I even put a disconnect on to help it stay charged while sitting. But I'm only getting about two years out of a battery. I think I had better luck when I used it more. Is there a brand or type of 6V that would be better for a tractor that sits a lot? Is there anything else I should be doing? Thank you.

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Doug in IL.

06-02-2003 05:57:59




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
Buy a John Deere Strong Box battery. Last week I had to get new ones for my JD70. (uses 2- 6 volts) It gets limited use also. One of the old JD batteries was 7 years and 2 months old, the other one was just short of 9 years old! I tried all different brands. I don't think you can beat JD. I even run them in my trucks.



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G Taylor

06-01-2003 19:44:53




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
Chronic under charging,overcharging, dep cycling and vibration will ruin even a premium battery. Set the voltage regulator to 7.1v in cool weather and on short duty equipment.6.9 to 7.0v for hot weather/long duration usage. If the battery doesn't say vibration resistant, it isn't. We have all seen batteries bounding around loose in battery boxes without being clamped down. A certain battery killer situation. I like to set batteries on a cushioning rubber pad of some sort before clamping them down. If it has enough CCA a quality golf cart battery is the cheapest deep cycle HD lead acid cell out there.

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KWB

06-01-2003 15:42:09




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
I probably should have mentioned that the tractor is a deisel and that I really don't have a lot of problems starting the pony while the battery lasts. It just bugs me that after only 100-200 starts I'm going to town after a new battery. Anyway, thank you all for your input, I certainly learned a few things. KWB



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Ralph

06-01-2003 14:31:53




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
I have had good luck buying 6 Volt batteries from Deere. $50 - 60. I would guess that I get c.a. 5 years out of them. I used to ('96 Mercury still has the original) buy Sears for the car. As big and long a warranty as I could get. The life usually exceeded the warranty by at least a year. My philosophy is it isn't cold until the car doesn't start, then it is extremely cold.



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Craig-MN

06-01-2003 12:55:41




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
Napa/Exide batteries are the worst of the bunch from my experience with them. I've been really happy with batteries from Carquest. I learned they are made by East Penn / Deka. I contacted East Penn/Deka and learned their batteries are sold under many different brands/labels. In Minnesota you can get them from Carquest and Mills Fleet Farm stores (and others). I just bought a new 6 volt for my tractor. East Penn assured me that the battery from Mills Fleet Farm or Carquest was the EXACT same battery except the label. Mills Fleet was $34 compared to $54 at Carquest for the group size 1 battery that most of these older tractors use. AS mentioned by another person.. Interstate brand should be good too. I wanted to try one of those Interstate batteries but everyplace I checked wanted to charge me full list/suggested retail price which was around $62 so I choose the East Penn/Deka battery at a lower price.

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Loren

06-01-2003 12:07:31




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
Yes, brand does make a difference, but I have been out of batteries too many years to know who has what nowadays. In case it interests you, and from my days working in a battery factory (Anderson, Indiana), here is a little study on batteries. There are four things that make a difference in battery quality. One is the size of the plates in sqaure inches. The more surface area you have the more cold cranking amps you can get. Some manufactures use short plates in standard sized boxes so they will fit your car but they won't last long. I have seen some that only reached half way down into the box. Unfortunately, when you are buying you can't tell how deep they are. Your best option there is to buy the ones with the most CCAs and assume they couldn't get that many amps without enough plate surface area. However, they can add more plates and reduce the thickness of each one and that will affect the second concern you have. How long you can grind on a battery and have it still come up with "juice" depends on how much compound is in the plates. Plates are grids that are pressed full of a "mud" compound and then dried before assembly into the battery. It is this compound that does the electron swap with the acid to give you electricity. The thicker the plates, the more compound you have, the deeper the charge and, generally speaking, the longer the battery will last. As you might well expect, how good the compound was that went into the battery is the third element, because that will affect how long the battery lasts. Some of it begins to disintregrate over time and each battery box has a gap below the plates that allows this loose compound to settle out without shorting out the bottoms of the plates. The fourth issue is the type of plate separaters used. Each cell has numerous plates (depending on battery quality) and each plate is separated from the ones next to it by a separater. They can be made of paper (that's the truth!) or they can be complicated compounds with reinforcement ribbing or they can be anything in between. When you lose a cell on a battery, chances are good that a separater has failed and the plates are shorted out.

So what is my advice on buying a battery? I agree with John T that it pays to buy the best one you can get for the money you can afford to spend. However, if you can find an outlet, buying seconds or reconditioned batteries also works. I am not sure how they do the reconditioning on sealed batteries, but we used to open batteries up and determine the quality of the construction before deciding whether they were worth reconditioning. If that is still done, the brand becomes less important once somebody has looked inside to see if the battery is worth rebuilding.

One other battery item that many people do not understand. It takes a LONG time to drive the acid out of the plates on a fully discharged battery. In the factory, we used to do a 36 hour slow charge on them. Very often we had batteries, either our own brand or somebody else's, that were traded in simply because they were fully discharged and had not been given long enough on a charger to fully rebuild the charge in them. Once the tests determined that the cells were all good, a 36 hour charge made them ready for service again.

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Dave K

06-01-2003 09:55:29




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
I got one for my WD about four years ago and it still works fine. I got a 6V from a marina, a boat battery I guess. They told me it would last and it has. Don't remember the name and don't feel like driving out and pulling the battery. I paid about $50 so it was an okay deal as far as I am concerned. I do use the tractor some though.

Dave



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Steve - IN

06-01-2003 08:30:42




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
KWB,
I've got a 6V Optima, which so far, has been great. It's rated at 750 CCA and has a RC rating of 104 minutes, compared well to deep cycle 12's rated at 120 to 130. It's a sealed cell unit, so you get no fumes or corrosion in the battery box.

The retail on these things is 120 to 140 bucks - but there's a thriving gray market on case blem units. I got mine for half price plus some freight (sealed cells, you can mail 'em). I had to grind off the ears on the case bottom to get it to fit in the battery box anyway, so the case blem status didn't phase me.

The maker says you can let these things sit for 6 to 12 months at no leakage and they'll start an engine. Life is supposed to be 5 years. Also, the recharge properties of these things is supposed to be similar to NiCd or NiMH chemistry units in that they're good for 500 to 600 recharges - so I got a wild hare and disconnected it from the regulator. I charge it once a month for 2 days at 6.5V and 800 to 1000 mA. Am using 00 welding cable on it. Experiment doing OK so far. Figure even if it doesn't last as long as advertised, I've still kept my new battery box nice and clean.

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Mike

06-01-2003 07:14:56




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
There are four battery companies out there that make most the domestic batteries. I have worked on battery powered Industrial vehicles for years now, I disagree with buy the cheapest. First of all 6volt batteries are not cheap, generally you get what you pay for. I have tried the local auto parts store batteries, and had about a 2-21/2 year life in them. I am not impressed with the 6v they sell at napa. Try a Trojan, they have a red case and I have had them last 5 years in vehicles that run only on batteries and get at least 25 running hours a week and several recharges. Interstate batteries last well too. Where I live Trojans and Interstate batteries go for around $79-$89. If you have trouble finding Trojans, go to a golf cart shop, cat dealer, or go online to find your nearest shop. Mike

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Clooney

06-01-2003 05:43:32




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
KWB, unfortunately on the 6 volt series there isn't much available that will help you. There are specialty batteries that will hold up better but the price is so high it will cost you way more than replacing yours every few years.
~What you need is a deep cycle battery but there isn't any cheap ones in the 6 volt line. A deep cycle battery doesn't usually have a good high CCA rating & usually doesn't make a good starting battery but it doesn't take much to start those pony engines.
~The problem with a regular starting battery is they have a fixed number of times they can be fully charged after a percentage of charge depletion. & if you let them just sit they sulfate up pretty bad.
~That battery disconnect is a good addition & placing one on both cables MIGHT help your problem. ~Keeping the battery clean of any boiled off acid will also help your battery life. I also have a 6 volt Diesel that sits a lot & on that one I keep the battery in a plastic boat battery box & that seems to help. Those 6 volt batteries don't seem to have the best sealed cases on them so sitting on that metal battery box will sometimes cause a slow rundown.
~Don't over charge it while sitting & using it once in a while will help it's overall life. I usually steal the 6 volt battery from that sitting diesel when I need a new 6 volt battery then buy a new one for the diesel when I need to use it.
~So far the cheapest thing I have found is to watch the battery sales & just replace that battery with a cheap new one every few years.

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John T

06-01-2003 05:07:11




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 Re: 6 volt battery , brand make a difference? in reply to KWB, 06-01-2003 04:47:31  
Good Sunday Morning KWB, Its a bright sunny day here in Southern Indiana, hope its fair your way. As far as battery brands, Ive tried so many over the years, I cant tell you which is best, I think a few companies make the masority of all them. I try and use heavy duty rated truck n tractor batterys, they are sturdier and supposedly (if you can believe any advertising) better rated for vibration than lighter cheaper automotive types. It sounds like youre already doing the right things, keeping them trickle charged (especially over long winter idle periods) sure hepls and the electrolyte topped off and the tops and terminals clean. Secure hold downs are important, otherwise if she can slide and shock impact the holder or compartment over n over, you might lodge free plate material where it sinks to the bottom and shorts out a cell.

I always recommend at least 0 Gauge battery and starter and ground cables on 12 volt systems, and it never hurts to remove all cable and starter and ground connections and clean and wire brush the bonding surfaces and re install and tighten. I have best luck using the felt washers under the batetry terminal ends and then spray them with battery protector sealing.

Its important on any dual battery systems that EACH be matched as exact as possible, otherwise the weaker or unmatched battery is harmful to the good one and they both go bad prematurely. I assume you either have a pony motor start diesel with the single 6 volt battery or a gasser with two sixes in series???

Good heavy cables, truck n tractor rated batterys, fluid topped off, kept charged, and no charging system leaks or current bleed offs and secure hold downs helps. I recommend the heaviest rated (amp hours or CCA) longest life battery I can fit in the compartments also.

Gotta run, Good Luck n God Bless

John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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