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Hydraulic pump on A

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CRAIG

05-31-2003 18:53:12




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A friend of mine has a late model A that leaks the hydraulic oil into the crankcase. It appears to me that the pump is mounted between the mag and the governor but my I&T breakdown maual only shows one in back of the tractor that runs off the pto. I checked also in the manual for the 50,60 and 70 and it seems to only show the one that sits on top of the governor. So is this were the pump is and the manual just does not show it are could this be some after market add on. If someone could help I would greatly appreciate it . THANKS

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F-I-T

05-31-2003 19:22:39




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 Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to CRAIG, 05-31-2003 18:53:12  
third party image

Craig:

There were several live power pump kits offered by after market sources, and at least from John Deere. This is an illustration from the JD "A" Parts catalog. It is for the live pump kit that installed bewteen the distributor/Mag and the governor. If the indicated seal were to leak, hydraulic fluid could enter the crankcase by traveling throught the pump drive and into the governor case.

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855

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Tom

06-01-2003 07:42:13




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 Re: Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to F-I-T, 05-31-2003 19:22:39  
Frank, would one of these pumps fit on an unstyled A?



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F-I-T

06-01-2003 07:53:15




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 Re: Re: Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to Tom, 06-01-2003 07:42:13  
Tom:

I have never seen one installed on a U/S "A", but since it just bolts onto the magneto mounting flange, and then the mag or distributor on to that, if you have clearance around any other levers and such, it should fit.

Now if you intend to use one to power the Powr-Lift or Powr-Trol, there are some more steps you'll need to include like installing a special blocking plate behind the P-trol box and removing the PTO pump idler gear.

You will see them for sale on eBay quite often. I have operated a '48 "A" that had one on and it ran the 45 loader very well with it.

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855

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Tom

06-01-2003 10:08:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to F-I-T, 06-01-2003 07:53:15  
Thanks, Frank. I just checked the styled A parts book, and indeed it shows the 'live' pump, and included at least one notation for unstyled A serial numbers 424025 on.

I have a flat back unstyled A, and would only use this to power a remote cylinder. I'd have to add a valve and reservoir. Any idea how big a reservoir would be required? Could I use John Deere trasdraulic fluid so that I can use the same cylinders as my modern tractors use?

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F-I-T

06-01-2003 14:18:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to Tom, 06-01-2003 10:08:20  
Tom:

Since you would have an truly independent system, you could probably use any quality, low-foaming fluid. As far as a reservoir, if you plumb it as two-way or dual-action system (pressure up and down), then you only need a small reservoir to accomodate any fluid loss and/or expansion due to heat during use. If your system doesn't leak, and you check it accurately cold often, you won't need as large a reservoir. If you plumb for single action or one-way, your reservoir will need to big large enough to hold the excess due to heat expansion plus one cylinder in volume.

That's why I like double-action. The far side of the cylinder serves as a reservoir of sorts. Now, after all of that, if you had a dual-action system, you could probably get by with a 2 quart reservoir, and only put a quart of fluid in it. Have your cold dipstick marked full at 1 quart, and low at 1/2 quart. That way when you have a full reservoir and it heats up, it will have more than enough volume in the can for the fluid to keep from overflowing. Be sure to use a good breather cap or that reservoir could crush as the fluid inside cools to ambient !

If you want to do it as a single action, then you'll have to add one full displacement of the cylinder to the above SWAG. But I'm truly guessing. A local hydraulic shop can probably give you some better ideas.


Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855

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Craig

05-31-2003 19:35:36




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 Re: Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to F-I-T, 05-31-2003 19:22:39  
Thanks Frank I suspected something like that but with out a picture I was afraid to breaak it down.



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John T

05-31-2003 19:13:22




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 Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to CRAIG, 05-31-2003 18:53:12  
Craig, the answer is yes and no. The after market pumps up on the side of the governor, between it and the mag, are driven, of course, off the governor shaft end where the mags were normally mounted. They were added and used cuz they furnished LIVE HYDRAULICS independant of the PTO shaft having to turn like the other standard (NOT live) hydraulic pump in the rear and referred to in that manual. Many (up there on the governor) were used and added to power the Behlen after market power steerign units among other hydraulic loads requiring live operation. The regular Power Trol pump is indeed the one in the manual.

Later tractors had their factory pumps installed up on the opposite side of the governor, were LIVE, and had levers to engage or disengage them.

John T Nordhoff

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Craig

05-31-2003 19:21:24




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 Re: Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to John T, 05-31-2003 19:13:22  
Thanks John I knew there was something different there and some of ya'll would have the answer.



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Clooney

05-31-2003 19:06:29




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 Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to CRAIG, 05-31-2003 18:53:12  
Craig, that is a add-on live hydraulic pump kit. Probably a Deere furnished unit. ~Check your E-mail as I sent you a parts breakdown on that add-on pump...



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CRAIG

05-31-2003 19:15:49




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 Re: Re: hydraulic pump on A in reply to Clooney , 05-31-2003 19:06:29  
Thanks Clooney you will have made my wife's boss very happy they have tried to get several people to work on it but they wouldn't so it fell to me. You have answered problems for me in the past and it is very appreciated.



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