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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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Spark Plug Wires, New or Old

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BUDD

01-09-2004 16:00:13




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I have heard all of you say that with a Mag you need to run the old slyle wires (wire core), But what about with a Dist. and high out put coil? Do I run old style or the new style fiber wires? Which one will give me better spark? The old ones seem to have less resistance than the new ones.

Thanks for the info BUDD ('';'')




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Clooney

01-10-2004 05:15:43




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 Re: Spark Plug Wires, New or Old in reply to BUDD, 01-09-2004 16:00:13  
Budd, as a rule the old tractors should use solid metal core coil & plug wires with the lowest resistance possible... Especially if the original magneto or a stock ignition coil is used.. Those original ignition systems were low out put & can't afford to give anything up to wire resistance.

Now when you are talking a high output coil that COULD be a different story.. A true high output coil [could] require TVRS plug wires or thicker insulation silicone type plug wires [depends on the coil, it's output KV, & more importantly the instructions that come with the coil.. Some high output coils require resistor wires to protect the coil from internal arcing especially if running a larger plug gap... Some of the automotive type high performance coils have a warning to use ONLY resistor wires or coil damage could result.

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Ron

01-10-2004 09:48:20




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 Re: Re: Spark Plug Wires, New or Old in reply to Clooney , 01-10-2004 05:15:43  
I want to ask about the carbon centered wires with the continuous wire winding, around the center ...??? I have used these on 4-Cylinder engines that vibrated a lot, and had excellent results with them... They are LOW resistance, and are noise-suppressive... I am not sure where to find these at this time...would you have any Idea who is producing these..?? I'd like to run these, as it suppresses the radio noise, and it is building up around me--I could get some "flak" about radio noise before long...!! Thanks....!! I have not heard anyone mention these wires, and they should be as good as solid core copper... Thanks..!! Ron....

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Clooney

01-10-2004 10:15:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Spark Plug Wires, New or Old in reply to Ron, 01-10-2004 09:48:20  
Ron, those spiral wound plug wires are not as good as copper... They are better than carbon core though.. Those spiral wound wires claim to fame is they hold up better to high engine heat & don't break down with age like carbon TVRS wires do... As a rule those spiral wounds do have a lower resistance per inch though..

~On a stock Deere 2-cylinder [especially a mag system] I wouldn't recommend any resistor wire [even the spiral wound]. If you are using a high output coil then you could probably easily live with those spiral wound..

~Possible spiral plug wire vendors

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John T (Old)

01-09-2004 18:50:39




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 Re: Spark Plug Wires, New or Old in reply to BUDD, 01-09-2004 16:00:13  
Budd, I pretty much agree with Bob there. Any resistance or suppression or DC resistance or AC Impedance in the plug wires drops energy across them which I prefer would be discharged across the spark plug gap. NOTWITHSTANDING any LC tuning effects of a matched wire and whatever capacitance in the circuit. I recommend wire core on old tractors, regardless if a mag (especially on them) or a coil ignition. As Bob pointed out, however, the auto type wires do reduce radio interference.

Regardign your comment about a high output coil and a plug wire choice, if youre still using mechanical ignition points and the normal plug gap, that so called high output coil still develops about the same voltage as a stock coil, which is only high enough to arc the plugs gap, regardless if the coil has the "capability" to produce say 50,000 volts versus maybe a stock coils 20,000 volts. Its when you couple that high performance coil with an electronic ignition, run more coil current (and usually run wider plug gaps) that you can discharge more energy (volts x amps) across the plugs gap. Therefore, if you had BOTH an elec ignition and a high energy coil, you could more afford to waste some energy in the wires versus discharging it across the plugs gap.

Bottom line, I would still recommend wire core EVEN IF a stock or hot coil were used.

I guess this is one area where new is not necessarily better, due to the inherent characteristics of the ignition system on which they are used and the possible side effects (interference).

Good Luck n God Bless

John T

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BUDD

01-10-2004 01:30:47




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 Re: Re: Spark Plug Wires, New or Old in reply to John T (Old), 01-09-2004 18:50:39  
John T;

If I run elec ignition will this give me more spark to the plugs? I have played with the plug gap last summer to find the best gap for my system. I went all the way to a gap of .100 and got a REAL good spark. The problem as you more than likely already know with this much gap is it will blow out the spark. I ended up with a gap of about 55 to 60 thou.. This seemed to work the best. Here is another one for you. Could I hook two coils together and then increase the gap more?

Thanks for the info BUDD ('';'')

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John T (Follow Up)

01-10-2004 06:34:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Spark Plug Wires, New or Old in reply to BUDD, 01-10-2004 01:30:47  
Hi again Budd, Elec. Ignitions is a fun topic to me, great questions, heres your answers.

1) If I run elec ignition, will this give more spark to the plus???

YES, if your term "spark" is synonomous with what I would define as "spark energy". When the coil fires and discharges its stored enery, such is expended in the form of volts x amps across the plug gap in the arcing current. In general, an elec ignition coupled with a high performance coil, YES delivers more spark energy (than the old points system) across the plugs gap to better igntite the fuel. It does so because you put more energy INTO the coil (and subsequently store more energy also) when its conducting via more primary current plus the coil is more efficient (better magnetic materials and physical characteristics) and transfers energy better than the stock one.

NOTE AND CAUTION ON PLUG GAPS AND WIRES:

Since the high performance coil can store more energy and ramp up to higher voltages than the stock, its possible to run a wider plug gap. A wider gap requiring more voltage to arc across it, coupled with the fact the arc is more current also, yields a fatter, wider, hotter arc of more surface area spark to better ignite the fuel. HOWEVER, if you run the gap too wide, the coils voltage has to rise to higher levels, and you might get arcign like at the coils tower or places OTHER than at the plug and the plugs dont fire at all. Also due to the coils dynamics, electrical characteristics and discharge rate and time, you could reach a point (also depends on fuel and compression) where too wide a gap would do more harm than good. Generally, not knowing the coil and wires etc etc, a plug gap in the 0.045 to 0.060 range may be better.

CAUTION ON WIRES: As you go up to the higher operating voltages (elec ignition and hot coil), youre gonna need quality high performance wires having higher voltage ratings (usually have more diameter and quality insulators) or else you may arc to frame and damage the insulation. Consult with the coil manufacturer regarding the subject.

BOTTOM LINE, ALWAYS consult with the maker of the coil and elec ignition as to more detailed guidelines and any need of secondary circuit resistances (like in the plugs or wires) to protect whatever coil you purchase.

2) Can you run 2 coils and widen the plug gap even further.

NOOOOO OOOOO OOOOO OOOOO OOOOO OOOOO OO

For one, coils dont work that way and you cant add their voltages together, and even if they did, per the above, you may start arcing to the frame or at the towers etc etc versus across the plug.

Great questions

John T

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Bob

01-09-2004 18:10:55




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 Re: Spark Plug Wires, New or Old in reply to BUDD, 01-09-2004 16:00:13  
Solid copper core wires should always deliver the best spark to the plugs. The only problem is the igntion system radiates RF energy that will screw up TV and radio for SWMBO and the kids, and the neighbors a quarter mile away. That's why carbon core or spiral wound ignition wires are used.

A battery ignition system should be OK with resistance wires, especially a high output system, and the family and close neighbors will love ya for it!

The only other reason I know of to use resistance wires is to keep down the electrical noise on a modern computerized vehicle, to keep the computer from getting a headache!

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