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JD A Finally ran! But still dies.

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Chris

05-01-2003 18:33:04




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I have replaced the magneto with a proven mag. The tractor started on the second or third crank and ran perfectly for about a minute to a minute 30. Then it died. It took awhile but finally started agian to only run for about 10 to 15 seconds. I have a hose on the drain of the carb to vent the carb. I am at the end of my rope once again. I hope somebody can help because I'm about to start liking red ones.

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Clooney

05-02-2003 06:01:02




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 Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris, 05-01-2003 18:33:04  
Chris, start with the basic fuel flow test mentioned below. Make sure you do it at the carb drain cock & you let it run for at least 30 seconds. [that will show you if you have adequate fuel IN THE CARB].
~If you pass that test [don�t short the time of letting it flow] move on to the carb. By what you have said, & by your past posts it kind of sounds like you might have a plugged carb bowl vent. That vent runs from the little depressed hole [with baffles] in the top of the carb bowl casting to the choke area & also into the main metering well as well as into the idle feed channels.
~With all the unknowns you have, & as long as you have worked on that tractor you probably need to either substitute a KNOWN GOOD carb or pull yours apart & clean the internal passages & main well nozzle side holes. ~Let me know if you need a carb internal passage picture to assist you.

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Steve - IN

05-01-2003 22:37:03




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 Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris, 05-01-2003 18:33:04  
Chris,
The red ones develop those kinds of problems as well -- at least mine did -- was a piece of crud over the fuel pick up in the tank; and I'd sealed the tank. No idea where it came from. Check the fuel flow all the way from the tank. If it sputters then dies, that's probably the cause. If it dies like you flipped off a switch, it could be ignition, yet it could still be a fuel problem. No fuel pump; gravity feed, so a particle of crud can stop the fuel flow as fast as putting your finger over a straw.

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John T

05-01-2003 21:36:34




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 Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris, 05-01-2003 18:33:04  
Hi Chris, I just got in me and my 24 yo son went to the new Menards store in town then out to eat and had a couple adult beverages lol. Anyway, it sounds like you may be starving for fuel, assuming at least one of the mags was okay.

1) Open the drain cock at the bottom of the carbs bowl and see if a good pencil lead sized stream of gas runs out continuous.

2) If not, remove the fuel line from the carbs input and see if a good continuous stream of gas the size of the lines ID runs out.

3) If not, remove the glass sediment bowl and turn the fuel on and see if the 2 lil side holes run gas out continuous and strong to fill the glass bowl.

4) If not, you may have a restriction up inside the fuel inlet pipe or screen up inside the tank. (A common problem)

You gotta have a good fuel flow out the carbs bottom which has to flow out the tank, into the sediment bowl, through the line, into and through the carbs side strainer, and then through the needle valve and seat to fill the bowl before she will run right.

When it starts to die, does she black smoke and/or would choking keep her running longer????? ????? ????? ?????

While it sounds like fuel starvation and not excess fuel, you may still wanna take a look at the choke butterfly plate for corerct operation and the air cleaners bottom bowl for water.

Is the gas free of water????? ????? and fresh????? ????? ??

Have you tried to adjust the carbs top load and idle needles????? ?? I dont think thats the problem at all, but try openign them a bit just to see what happens.

If the carb isnt venting properly, it can cause her to starve for fuel also.

While it could be ignition related, Im thinking fuel starvation for now, so see how the fuel is flowing at all the points described above and that the gas has no water in it and you might take a look at the plugs and let me know what they look like.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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ben

05-01-2003 21:08:06




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 Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris, 05-01-2003 18:33:04  
If you think the problem is in carb, then I recommend replacing this also with a proven carb.
I thought the problem would also be with the mag, but you replaced that. Make sure all electical works good and give it a tune up just in case it hasn't had one. Its sounds more electrical then gas related, though it still could be.



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tom

05-01-2003 19:16:41




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 Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris, 05-01-2003 18:33:04  
Chris,

I know how your feel, I almost started liking burnt ones caused by multiple shotgun blasts...LOL

After fixing my TSX-245 carburator [for the 3-4th time], I later found out that I had an ignition problem...so, this is or can be an extension process of elimination/isolation. Duane is right, you need a pencil size fuel flow from the carb bowl for 30-45 sec's @ a minimum. If not, start @ the gas tank/sediment bowl, then screen, fuel line, then the inlet screen on the carb [do not know how your carb is configured].

If the fuel flow checks out, then you need to examine the main jet to see if the holes are plugged and pretty much do a carb overhall if they are...you can also see if the float is potentially stuck and not allowing fuel to flow in...if she doesn't come around then, post back and I'll lend you some 3.5" 12 gauge magnum sg-shells. LOL

Hang in there. The answer is there somewhere, and the guys on this board will help you find it.

Good luck...tom

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Duane Larson

05-01-2003 18:50:56




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 Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris, 05-01-2003 18:33:04  
Chris,
Congratulations on getting it started! By your statement, the length of running is about the same as the length of time it would run on the fuel in the carb bowl. This would imply a fuel supply problem. Place a can under the drain line you have on the carb bowl and let the fuel run into the can for 2 minutes. That will check if you have a restriction somewhere in the fuel supply - you should observe a good, steady stream of fuel flowing.
Don't be too hard on John Deere's - all tractors develop problems which have to be sorted out and solved before they run properly, and JD is no worse than any other color (from experience).
Duane Larson

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Chris

05-01-2003 19:03:25




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 Re: Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Duane Larson, 05-01-2003 18:50:56  
I have been working on this thing for 2 years and still just can't figure it out. I already have like 1600 in it and probably won't ever be able to get that out of it. I am sorry about my earlier comment. It was a moment of stress and words like that will never be heard from mouth again. I will always like the old JD and Olivers the best. But, I have checked the fuel supply and it appears to have a good flow going to the carb. I have also adjusted the float and the idle and load screws to the settings in the IT Shop Manual. You can probably see why I'm so confused. Everything is there for it to run but it just won't stay running. It blows black smoke out the exhaust when it is turning over but that is the only time it ever hits is when the throttle is wide open and the choke is about half way out. But it doesn't matter if the throttle is open or closed, it still runs the same amount of time and then dies like you shut off the key. I don't have a switch on it, and there is no stud on my mag to put one so I have also ruled that out. Any other ideas? All are very much appreciated!

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scruffy

05-02-2003 07:49:52




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 Re: Re: Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris , 05-01-2003 19:03:25  
I read all of the other posts and read your's a few times over. The way you describe it, runs for a particular time period and dies. The engine RPM doesn't extend/reduce the time makes me think it may not be fuel related. I had this exact experience with a gocart race engine. It'd run strong for 3 minutes and die like someone pulled the spark plug wire. It wouldn't start right away but after you left it alone for 10 - 15 minutes it would refire and run for 3 minutes. I sold it before I fixed it (moved onto motorcycles) but heard it was the ignition, either the coil or condensor, I don't remember which. It was getting hot and shorting.

I'm not familiar with mags, only generators and alternators, but it sounds like something may be getting hot and cutting out the spark. You might want to see if there is any spark right after the engine dies.

Oh, and on the red tractor thing. I've kept ahold of a Farmall M that I restored years ago now and use it for brush hogging, moving dirt, operating boom, blading snow, etc (put a 3-point on it). Worked for years without a problem. Last year was a nightmare. I couldn't keep it running. In one year I had to replace everything in the carb and pretty much everything from the battery to the spark plugs including the battery and spark plugs. The coil, ign switch, amp gauge, wires, points, condensor, plug wires, etc. I sunk $$$$$ in it every week it seemed like. And there were times my grass got pretty tall - wife didn't like that... It took almost an hour of dinking with it to get it started every time I needed it. Went through the governer, compression, etc etc etc. In the end it paid off and the grass is mowed. It now runs and starts better than ever.

The problems started the day I brought home my grandpa's JD70. I guess the M didn't like the new JD 70 project parked next to it.... must have felt intimidated. I don't park them next to each other anymore. The old tractors have their personality.

Thanks,
scruf

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Chris

05-05-2003 19:50:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to scruffy, 05-02-2003 07:49:52  
I know they are a little different sometimes. Thats why I keep John Deere, Farmall, Oliver and Minneapolis Molines. I can usally get one to start if the others won't. Always partial to Oliver but swinging toward Moline now. Even considering an AC to even the colors out. As for the tractor, It has good fuel flow. I double checked it while I was taking a break from the moline. I have checked the spark and it is getting gas to the cylinder. I have unhooked the air horn from the oil bath to the carb. but havent done it since I have put the good mag on. The tractor ran great for about 1 minute and died and started only for about 10 seconds after that. I have pretty much ruled the mag out so I am now looking at the carb. Somebody said something about 3 holes. I have a hose hooked up to the bottom of the carb to vent it and the gas suckes out of it when you pull it with the throttle open. When it is setting the gas comes to about 1/2 way up the carb bowl. I have set the float to the factory specs in the IT Shop manual. Is the fuel supposed to go higher than that? The tractor ran perfectly and now back to it's old tricks again! I have been running automotive plug wires. Will it not run with those? Also where can you find the old style with the wire inside. The autoparts store said they outlawed them because they set off bombs and things like that. Think he maybe just didn't want to look for them. Thanks to everybody for all your help, and I will to try a few more things this week.

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will

05-02-2003 06:19:32




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 Re: Re: Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris , 05-01-2003 19:03:25  
Chris, That black smoke and only runs with throttle wide open sounds like it may be starving for air. you may have already checked, but see if your choke is staying open after it starts. The choke butterfly can move on the shaft, and you would never know externally, closing off air to the engine. Try the air system. Some times dirt dobbers like to make their homes in air stacks disturbing air flow. Im just throwing this at you because it seems as if you have tried the fire and gas. For a hint you might check to see if your plugs are wet after it dies. This would tell you whether or not it is dying from fuel starvation, or something else. With the black smoke im betting on ignition or air for you problem assuming other variables such as properly adjusted vales etc.

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Bob NC

05-01-2003 21:25:27




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 Re: Re: Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris , 05-01-2003 19:03:25  
Roberts Carburetor repair says that the most common problem that shows up on his work bench is the three passages are rusted shut. have you used the 6in. #43 and #50 drill bits?



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Duane Larson

05-01-2003 19:15:08




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 Re: Re: Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Chris , 05-01-2003 19:03:25  
Chris,
I can appreciate your frustration! How did it run when it was running? Was it smoking? Did the rpm's sound right? Was it idling or at fast idle? Have you had the carb rebuilt? Have you tried new plugs? Are your plug wires copper-cored wire (they need to be)? Is your fuel fresh? How did you set the float level?

I may be getting in late here on an ongoing story, and you may have considered all the above.

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tom

05-01-2003 19:41:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD A Finally ran! But still dies. in reply to Duane Larson, 05-01-2003 19:15:08  
Chris,

It always sometimes takes someone else to come-up with the answer...see if the plugs are good/fouled? Have you changed them lately? If not, I am betting my horse on that one !!!

tom



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