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70D: Intermittent charging/VR question

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F-I-T

04-12-2003 17:12:28




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I thought I noticed the battery being a little flat today when I started it up. Ammeter is at "0". I turned the lights on and it went to -15. After about a minute, it moved to 0. Turned the lights off and it moved to +15, but didn't stay there long (maybe a minute).

Not sure of what to check, I checked the ARM post on the generator, and got 7.62 V (fast idle). Resting battery voltage was 6.12 (I thought that a little low).

Any suggestions ? It's a new VR. When it puts out, it's fine, it's just getting it to put out consistently. Also, I don't ever get to run it often or for long periods, so maybe I'll always fight this problem.

Am I chasing an intermittent ground ? Could the VR be set too low ? I took a good ground and touched at the various places, generator case, VR case, checked ground strap. Nothing made the VR jump to charge. If I flick a ground against the ARM lead for less than an instant, it bumps right to charging ( I hope this is not a bad thing).

Any guidance as to what to check. I'm cleaning grounds in the mean time.

Frank-in-Tallahassee
70D // 855

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G Taylor

04-13-2003 05:20:58




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 Re: 70D: Intermittent charging/VR question in reply to F-I-T, 04-12-2003 17:12:28  
A failing or miss adjusted cut out points in the regulator box. Or a intermitant ground to the regulator box could also be an explanation.



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Clooney

04-12-2003 19:08:02




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 Re: 70D: Intermittent charging/VR question in reply to F-I-T, 04-12-2003 17:12:28  
Frank, start with a belt tension check [see if you can turn the generator fan by hand] if you can, then tighten the belt or it replace with a better belt.
~If the belt is ok you might not have a problem. Sometimes those generator systems are a little lazy to get started if the tractor hasn't been run for a while.
~You might want to see what voltage the battery is seeing during charging [measure the charging voltage across the battery posts [you want about 6.6-7.2 volts at fast idle] with the ammeter showing a charge. That 7.62 is high if it is getting all the way back to the battery.
~With a good condition fairly new battery the ammeter will drop to near 0+ after the battery is charged as the diesel has no ignition system & the only load that the electrical system sees is the fuel gage. ~I wouldn't overdue that shorting the [A] post to ground as that is a direct short to ground & could stick or burn the voltage regulator cut-out points if the battery back feeds the [A] post & through that short to ground.
~Other than the delay in the generator coming on line I'm still not convinced you have a problem. That lights thing could be normal if your battery is good & fully charged... At full battery charge & with the engine running [fast idle] the ammeter will be just above 0,,, lights on will then cause the system to supply battery voltage through the ammeter to the light circuit & show a discharge until the regulator reacts & grounds the field,,, then as the battery charges back up & the ammeter will only show battery charging current as the light current is sent from the generator to the lights before it passes through the ammeter. When the lights are then turned off the excess generator output will pass through the ammeter & to the battery until the regulator catches up & lowers the charging rate. [that thing isn't electronically regulated so the response is slower].
~I don't think you have a ground problem as the output seems to be 15+ amps. If I were to guess at anything it would be a dirty commutator or sticking brush. ~I don't have a 70D here right now & my working 720D has a 12 volt generator with a 6 volt regulator on it from winter service [it charges the battery at a lower RPM] so I can idle it around all winter with the lights on & keep the battery up.
~You might want to leave your lights on for about 15-20 minutes, then start the tractor & run it at fast idle to see if the generator moves the ammeter to the 15 amp charging position, then run it long enough to see if the ammeter drops to around 0+. If so you probably don't have a problem. ~Remember that 6 volt generator doesn't do much unless the engine is running pretty fast.
~If the tractor has to run for a while before the ammeter moves to the charging side you might have a dirty commutator or sticking brush. ~One more thing, you might want to pull a battery cable [with the engine off], then place a volt meter between the removed cable & the battery post to check for a draw. ~Let us know what you find?

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F-I-T

04-12-2003 19:22:38




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 Re: Re: 70D: Intermittent charging/VR question in reply to Clooney , 04-12-2003 19:08:02  
Clooney:

I'll work my way down your post and let you know. I did already check for a draw, and found none. I agree that I might not have a problem at all, and that it just takes a bit of time to get that durn VR to kick in.

I'll be sure to draw that battery down some with the lights and then see if it will continue to charge and bring the battery back to nom.

What should the resting voltage be for a 6 v battery ? I was thinking around 6.4 or 6.5.

You know I never get to run it very long, and maybe this is just a thing. Those days when I do get to run it for longer periods it has never refused to work, it's just something I seemed to notice today, and got to wondering.

I know if it was time for it to go planting, I'd never have thought twice.

I'll get back with some test results.

Thanks as always.

Frank

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Clooney

04-12-2003 19:46:32




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 Re: Re: Re: 70D: Intermittent charging/VR question in reply to F-I-T, 04-12-2003 19:22:38  
Frank, after the surface charge has bled off, a good 6 volt battery will be around 6.3 volts. 75% charge will be somewhere around 6.2 volts. ~A sulfated 6 volt battery will be around 6.2 volts also so if the battery isn't new you might have sulfated plates.
~As a test [I know you like tests], put your battery charger on the battery overnight, then let it sit for a couple of hours, then re-check the sitting battery voltage. If it is the same as you have now suspect a voltmeter cal error or a sulfated battery.
~If you don't run the tractor long or only at low RPM's you might consider a smaller generator pulley.....

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Hilltopper

04-12-2003 18:41:08




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 Re: 70D: Intermittent charging/VR question in reply to F-I-T, 04-12-2003 17:12:28  
I have had this problem with my 720 I have put 2 new VR's on it in less than a year they only last a few months than quit working. I gave up and bought a low amp charger. I use it as needed. Hope you find the problem. My charging system is in good shape otherwise.



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