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Alternator conversion

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Preacher John

03-09-2003 08:09:44




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I don't know much about electronics so okay here goes. I bought a one wire alternator thinking that I could use it to replace the dead generator on my '48 A. Here's the problem. The fanshaft on the tractor turns clockwise. The alternator is a regular automotive type and it appears to need to turn counter-clockwise judging by the angle of the cooling fins on the alt. This may be a dumb question but will the alternator produce current spinning either way? Second, if the alternator spins clockwise and the cooling fan pushes air rather than pulls air, will the alternator overheat and die?
Thanks, Preacher John

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Paul Janke

03-09-2003 15:20:16




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 Re: Alternator conversion in reply to Preacher John, 03-09-2003 08:09:44  
Alternators work just fine backwards. The nut will try to back off if there is no key between the shaft and pulley, but when I did it I had no problems. I ran an alternator backwards on a Reo 6x6 military truck which had a log self-loader on it. Under hood temperatures were high, and it never gave trouble. I was once told that Corvair alternators ran the other way and that they had a different alternator fan for those.

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Preacher John

03-09-2003 09:55:41




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 Re: Alternator conversion in reply to Preacher John, 03-09-2003 08:09:44  
Thanks guys. I'll attempt to make a bracket and get it bolted down today. The alternator is new so there is no noise either way. I think you guys were right yesterday when I asked about valve train noise. The tips of the rockers are worn. I have to get those resurfaced because everything else in the engine is new or machined to fit like new. She runs great with the Roberts cam and aluminum pistons. I guess it will run even better and quieter when the valves have the proper lash.

John T, I'm not really a reverend. However that rather unfriendly fellow from last week thought I was being a little "preachy" for my show of appreciation for guys like you and Clooney. Hence the name "Preacher John". lol
Thanks again fellas. Preacher John

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John T

03-09-2003 10:03:37




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 Re: Re: Alternator conversion in reply to Preacher John, 03-09-2003 09:55:41  
Good Luck then "Preacher" lol Hey its a neat nickname regardless of origin. Likewise, the "T" after my name isnt really my middle initial, its an old nickname given me years ago, the origins of which must go unshared now for certain reasons. A worker many years back was frustrated because he couldnt find any John Tee etc in the phonebook lol. I think clooney needs to divulge his nick name story????? ?? Bill, right???

Later Preacher, Ol John T

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JD-Tractor in NY

03-09-2003 14:24:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Alternator conversion in reply to John T, 03-09-2003 10:03:37  
Hey on that one wire alternator if it is a marine type alternator it may not work anyway as it has to reach a high enough RPM to get turned on and begin charging.It may not work anyway cause of our lack of high enough rpm,,,,, ,,,,, ,,,,, ,,,,,Just thru that in for thought as I ran into this putting one on a Belarus



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Clooney

03-09-2003 14:39:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Alternator conversion in reply to JD-Tractor in NY, 03-09-2003 14:24:51  
JD-Tractor in NY, if it is a high RPM marine unit it can still be used by just adding an ignition circuit excitation wire to the # 1 terminal of the regulator with a 10 ohm 2+ watt resistor in it.



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John T

03-09-2003 14:30:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Alternator conversion in reply to JD-Tractor in NY, 03-09-2003 14:24:51  
Thats one disadvantage of some one wire units Ive seen is that they dont kick in until they reach a decent RPM, which is why the good old GM 10SI untis which we excite off the ignition are still good on our old Deeres. The one he has may be okay, I know some are used on the lower RPM applications. Ol John T



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John T

03-09-2003 08:52:42




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 Re: Alternator conversion in reply to Preacher John, 03-09-2003 08:09:44  
Mornin Preacher, Its Sunday morning, you ought to be preachin now and having a fried chicken dinner later and not workin on any JD lol. Anyway, without knowign the specifications and electrical characteristics and voltage regulation system on your particular alternator, I cant answer the question for certain, but in theory at least, a rotating DC electro magnet (Rotor) can induce energy into the stator, regardless of its direction of rotation. An alternator passes DC current through the rotor to produce a magnetic field, and anytime you pass a magnet past a coil of wire (Stator) it induces voltage therein. The Stator windings produce an alternating current which is thereafter rectified (changed to DC) by the diodes, and then voltage and current regulated by the inernal regulator on those one wire alternators. So, it will induce energy into the stator regadless of rotation direction, but there couild still be some sensitive electronics issues in the voltage regulation system or circuits that I cant address not having the specs in front of me, but since the stator sees AC and the rectifier diodes changes it to DC anyway, and the regulator system is primarily DC, my guess is it will work regardless of direction. HOWEVER, I have spun many automotive alternators and they seemed to make different sounds if rotated backwards, maybe partly due to the slip rings and how they are held down??? Does spinning yours either way produce any difference in feel or sound or funny noises????? ?? If not, I believe it will work regardless of rotational direction, I know in theory it will.

As far as cooling, since its designed to run under hotter hoods as opposed to out in the open like on your tractor, I dotn think it will make any noticeable difference regardlss of the direction of air flow. I say put it on and give her a try and if she wont work backwards, I will always say it should have in theory lol and you can drop back and punt.

Let me know if it worked or not . God Bless, ol John T

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Clooney

03-09-2003 08:37:41




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 Re: Alternator conversion in reply to Preacher John, 03-09-2003 08:09:44  
John, the alternator has diodes in it so regardless of which way it is spun it will produce the correct polarity DC power.
~On the cooling fan issue? Not sure what you have for a cooling fan but Delco did produce 2 different direction cooling fans for the SI-10 & 3 different ones for the SI-12 [one was bi-directional].... For your tractor it doesn't matter as the alternator is out in the cool air flow & the loads will be light. If you were installing it in a hot underhood environment with the chance for full output in a hot ambient atmosphere the fan direction would matter, but not on a tractor..

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John T

03-09-2003 09:25:46




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 Re: Re: Alternator conversion in reply to Clooney, 03-09-2003 08:37:41  
Yo Clooney, I think the different sounds Ive heard when spining old auto alternators backwards are just the normal slip ring carbon brush and holder wear patterns which may not be quite as smooth for a while when in reverse. Whatcha think??? John T



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Clooney

03-09-2003 09:36:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Alternator conversion in reply to John T, 03-09-2003 09:25:46  
John, I'm only familiar with the GM & Deere alternators. But usually that screeching sound you hear when turning the rotor backwards from normal rotation is the feathering on the trailing edge of the brushes from rotational wear. On the SI-10 if the brushes are new there shouldn't be any difference in directional noise.



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