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Ether starting hard on an engine????

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steve

03-05-2003 17:21:18




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We recently got a 4230 which by reading alot of messages here that its a pretty hard starting tractor. We had a little difficulty starting ours. I see a button on our tractor that apparently releases ether into the engine. Or is it glow plugs? If it is ether, where is the can located? How often should it be replaced? The dealer we bought it from gave us a can of ether starting fluid to start the engine. Is is hard on the engine to use ether all the time to start the engine. And where would be the appropriate spot to spray this ether in the breather. We have a JD 6620 combine and have never used ether to start the combine. It starts at the turn of the key even after sitting for months in the cold. The air cooled Deutz tractor we have is the same way. We haven't used starting fluid ever in the 14 years we have had it!

thanks for your response!

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David

03-06-2003 14:30:12




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 Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to steve, 03-05-2003 17:21:18  
I have a neighbor who swears that the ether start aid on JD is a bad idea. Apparently he's had the button stick on 2 tractors and knock the rings off pistons. He'll only use an ether can manually sprayed into the air cleaner. I have the JD start aid on a 4230 and it works well for me. I always have the tractor cranking before pressing and releasing the button instantly. When its cold I plug the tractor in if I know I'll be using it. When plugged in it still takes ether to start but not to run. I wouldn't want my wife or anyone else starting my tractor with ether.

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will

03-06-2003 09:52:29




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 Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to steve, 03-05-2003 17:21:18  
Like the other guys said. They wouldnt hang the canister if they didnt want you to use it. Our 4630 used starting fluid every first start reguardless of the weather. It absolutley would not start without it. A guy visited one day while we were discing and said he could get it started without ether. He thought the fuel was leaking down, so he went to the primer pump, and pumped until fuel dripped back in the tank from return lines. He smiled and said watch this. Needles to say it still didnt start without the ether. It made it to 8000 hours with no upper engine damage, and no oil usage. In conclusion I would say that ether in moderation will not cause any notable damage to internal engine components. Like the others say plug it up when you can, but dont hesitate to use ether when you cant. Starters arent cheap.

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G-MAN

03-06-2003 07:48:21




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 Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to steve, 03-05-2003 17:21:18  
If used properly, ether will not harm your engine, or the manufacturers wouldn't hang the starting aid system on the side of the tractor to begin with. Most guys run into trouble by fogging the heck out of the intake pipe and then trying to start the tractor. This leads to the engine getting a big snort of ether all at once. Ether in big amounts will not compress and can ether-lock the engine, which can lead to damage. Deeres are usually not too bad about ether-locking, but some other types of engines will do it in a heartbeat. As was posted earlier, have the engine cranking well and then give it a quick shot of ether, and use it sparingly to keep the engine running if it wants to die. Also as was posted earlier, plugging the tractor in is the best way to ensure good cold starting. The 30 series engines can be a little cold blooded, especially as they get some where and age on them. As the valves become somewhat recessed in the head, the compression ratio lowers and affects starting. Cylinder and ring wear also makes for harder starting, as does fuel system wear. If the ether cannister on your tractor is empty, the ether cans available at your JD dealer fit right in - just pull off the little nozzle and install it in the hold. It's also not a bad idea to remove the nozzle from the intake and make sure it's clean and will flow ether. The plastic ether lines used on many Deeres also have a tendency to break when they become old and brittle. As was previously mentioned, getting an operator's manual should be your first step. That too is available from your dealer. They probably have an old one they'd give you or sell for little or nothing, or they can order you a new one.

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zane

03-05-2003 19:14:36




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 Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to steve, 03-05-2003 17:21:18  
Yes. Use of ether is hazardous to your engine's health. But it's sometimes necessary. The key is to use it judiciously. 1. If your tractor is equipped with factory ether injection system, follow the mfg's instructions to the letter. 2. Never use more than necessary. If the engine's warm, it probably won't require any. 3. Try to arrange the injection so that the engine's turning when it first feels the ether. If you must inject remotely, give it plenty of time to inhale after the first shot before adding more. But, if it's cold and your starter's iffy, try a small shot then turn the engine a second or two and stop to let the ether disperse (and dilute) in the manifold. After ten seconds or so, turn it again, without more ether. 4.If you hear much pre-ignition rattleing when it fires, you've used too much ether. 5. Keep the ether can away from untrained employees.

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Steve from Tn

03-05-2003 18:51:12




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 Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to steve, 03-05-2003 17:21:18  
The Deutz book says never to use ether. It was used on mine once by mistake. No apparent damage. I know this does not answer your question, just a comment.



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will

03-06-2003 09:41:24




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 Re: Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to Steve from Tn, 03-05-2003 18:51:12  
many times engines that say dont use starting fluid have glow plugs. You can imagine what happens when the very combustible starting fluid hits the hot glow plugs. I have heard many stories of cylinder heads being ruined from combustion in the intake ports. This may not be your case, but it is a possibility as to why your tractor requests no starting fluid.



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phil

03-05-2003 17:40:19




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 Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to steve, 03-05-2003 17:21:18  
We use a 4230, 4430, & a 4630. I think the 4230 actually starts the easist, maybe because the others have turbos. The ether can is mounted in a holder on the side of the engine. There is a small tubing that is plumbed into the intake. When you push the button on the dash, a shot of ether goes thru the tube into the engine. To start, get the engine spinning & keep it spinning, then push the button for about 2 seconds at a time. When it starts you may need to give it 3 or 4 more shots to keep it from stopping. If you know in advance when you need the tractor, it is better to plug the coolant heater into a 110 volt outlet for 4 or more hours. Easier on the engine & easier on the starter. The heater plug-in cord should be on the left side of the engine near the compressor.

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HD1200

03-06-2003 17:42:59




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 Re: Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to phil, 03-05-2003 17:40:19  
Why have the engine spinning before shooting? Why not shoot then spin?



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JMS/MN

03-05-2003 17:34:47




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 Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to steve, 03-05-2003 17:21:18  
Buy the OPERATOR manual for the tractor. In it you'll find the location of the ether can holder, and much more you NEED to know about the tractor. It does not have glow plugs, nor should it need ether for normal starting. In cold weather it likely needs help, either block heater or ether, maybe both. Don't blow the ether in unless the engine is turning over. Short spurts should be sufficient. If the battery connections are corroded, or a poor ground, you'll have trouble starting even in the summer. The manual also details proper care, operation, and maintenance.

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saathoff

03-06-2003 16:58:17




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 Re: Re: ether starting hard on an engine???? in reply to JMS/MN, 03-05-2003 17:34:47  
Ether is actual a great starting tool if it is used sparlingly. one thing that you might want to check is on the side of the injection pump there linkage conected to the speed advance lever. 30 series had trouble with thing that it would wear and would not pull the pump into full fuel when started so what we do at the dealership is to take that mouse trap off and pull that rod out as far as it will go and put a spring with a washer and cotter key to hold it out or we've used hose clamps when the other stuff was not avaiable. hope this helps if you need any help email me

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