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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

H.P. and baling

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scooter crunch

10-11-2005 18:17:16




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We have a Fordson Dexta setup wo work with our JD 24T baler. Everything worked fine except for balng on some of the big hills. There was plenty of power but not enough traction. At a recent auction we picked up an Oliver 1950T for dirt cheap, and very little needs done to it. Some where we read/heard that you shouldn"t use 100hp @ 540rpm for baling? Are we going to kill our 24T next year with the Oliver?

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kmiller

10-15-2005 18:34:08




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
It will be fine, not the cheapest for fuel and not as nimble as a smaller one but it will work. DON'T throttle back, run it at exactly 540rpm on the PTO. The baler is one piece of equipment made to run at 540, no more, no less. Running it slower will stress it more, it won't be easier on it. Run it at 540 and let the flywheel do its job.

You can run a shredder whatever speed you like, but run the baler at 540rpm, no matter what HP the tractor has.

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Tim Shultz

10-14-2005 20:24:14




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
plain and simple... you DON"T NEED THAT MANY PONIES!!!
I have a 24T that I pull with a CASE 611B at half throttle.... 64 HP
why in the world would you want to use that much fuel when there is no need...
I did use a cockshut 570 for a while, but was waaayyy to bulky for baling.. same with most other large 100 HP tractors... if you would like to hear my input on anything else my E-mail is [email protected]
Tim Shultz

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Hugh MacKay

10-15-2005 04:02:29




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to Tim Shultz, 10-14-2005 20:24:14  
Tim: Have to agree, I could see where Cockshutt 570 would be quite cumbersome. I found much the same with my Farmall 560, too long on the wheelbase. I found the 656 much better as IH did improve the steering. But other than the steadyness of the diesel, my best baler tractor was the old narrow front 300. Still it can't hold a candle to these 50 to 60 hp utility type diesels.

When driving along country roads, not hard to see who was using big cumbersome tractors for baling. Just the amount of hay left behind tells the story. My dad called it baling on the share crop, you share a portion of hay with mother nature Hay windrows are never an exact science, items like wind, loose hitches, etc. make it necessary for a baler operator to be quick on direction change, thus a short agile tractor is very important. I'd be willing to bet, if scooter put some chloride and wheel weights on the old Dexta he would be a lot happier than with that big Oliver.

Other matter I can't understand with these guys, maybe not in this thread, but have seen it in the past, I NEED A BIG TRACTOR TO PULL WAGON BEHIND BALER ON HILLS. "Balony" I had a few hills where stability was a concern, but I never had to be concerned about not being able to pull or hold back the baler and wagon. My wagons were 20x8 inside, held 150 bales from thrower. Baler only weighs 1.5 ton, wagon and hay 4 ton at most. I wish I had a dime for every time I've seen my old 300 coming up the farm driveway with 10 ton of corn silage on wagon behind and tires slipping distance between treads on the hard gravel surface.

Pulling a baler is plain and simple play work on the farm, now productive baling is not, but it don't take big hp, just lots of MANPOWER. Some of these guys should start plowing and tilling 300+ acres per year, putting up silage, hauling grain wagons, then they would know what big hp was built for.

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scooter crunch

10-15-2005 15:13:53




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-15-2005 04:02:29  
The Dexta does have calcium in the tires, and they are fresh all around. Wheel weights are tough to come by that fit, it seems everything around here fits green. We did alot of baling on the ground this year so we could get all that we cut. In the hills of Pennsy, flat fields are hard to find.



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Hugh MacKay

10-14-2005 16:28:29




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
scooter: I've found this whole thread rather amusing, to think it takes this much horse power just to run a small square baler. To start with tractors under 40 hp have baled more hay across North America than all others combined.

Over the years I had a NH S-69 baler with thrower bought new in the early 60s. Tractors I farmed with during the time that baler was around were Farmalls SA, 130, 300, 504, 560D, 656D, 1066D and a Cockshutt 540. The Farmall 300 still holds the record on my farm for having baled the most hay in two consecutive days at 9,000 bales for the two days. The 560 and 656 have each baled 4,500 bales in a day quite often, but never two days in a row. Now, the 130, 504 and Cockshutt each baled some hay, probably 1,000 bales per day. That leaves the Super A and 1066 and their daily average is ZERO.

In my opinion, I never had the ideal baler tractor and there were numerous makes, but the very best baler tractors were 50 to 60 hp utility type tractors, diesel, with 4 - 2&R transmission with TA type high-low and independant pto. They are so short and agile and will lug a baler and wagon most anywhere if properly tired and weighted. Almost all manufacturers had a tractor in that catergory. I am an IH man and the two I remember were 574 and 584, but there were others just as good Deere, MF. They will out bale 70 to 125 hp tractors with flying colors.

In my lifetime, I've listened to many farmers whining and belly aching about hard times on the farm. Listening to some of you guys, it's not hard to see why. Please tell me, what ever are you feeding this hay to? Got to be something more profitable than cattle or sheep. I'm getting on in years a bit, but you don't bale marijuana, do you? Please help me guys, I'd like to know how to make a profit baling with the kind of horse power you guys are talking.

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scooter crunch

10-14-2005 17:21:57




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-14-2005 16:28:29  
I"m baling for my own horses. Next year we plan on at least taking 3000 bales, nothing major. There was an IH 656, I believe, that we liked. This thing was just too cheap to pass up, and the only thing "wrong" with it is the steering box leaks.



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kkyhayman

10-13-2005 19:12:50




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
Used a 2090 Case (105 HP) for several years (on a 336 Deere), only thing I ever saw as a problem is I burned up a set of slip clutches 2x per year (I normally get about a year out of them) with 86 hp. Thats running it at slightly above capacity for 10,000 bales.



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seth_ia

10-12-2005 19:02:45




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
I never put a tractor on my NH 273 with less than 100 hp. I too prefer to use the JD 4430(has air), which dynoed at 145 hp. Anything less than 100hp is just roughing it more than I like. With extra ponies I can sometimes work a slug trough without manually unpluging it.



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evilboweviel

10-12-2005 06:01:16




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
run at pto speed. DO NOT run in low side going down hill it will run away with you. Recomend 1st high or 2cd direct maybe 2cd over if light hay. Baled many a load behind 1755 works fine has plenty of weight to keep it where you want it and not get pushed around on the hills
Good luck
Ron



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varmitt

10-12-2005 06:00:58




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
i pull our 24t with my 4430 all the time the neighbor that i bought the baler from ran it with a 4030 just take it easy my 70 yr old mom runs the baler and likes the ac and radio



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Don-Wi

10-11-2005 20:29:35




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
Our neighbors use a White 2-135 or their 100 on the baler. It's way overkill, but they don't seem to have too many problems with it. We run a Massey 285 on our baler.
Donovan from Wisconsin



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jossette

10-11-2005 18:50:45




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
granny gear and 1/2 idle is it in heavy windrows. You will be in and out of the tractor fixing if any faster. Your call on a small windrow..... ..... ..



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old

10-11-2005 18:35:12




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to scooter crunch, 10-11-2005 18:17:16  
Its is way over kill but as long as you have the right shear pins and slip clutchs on the baler you will be ok. Just take it slow since one that big can fill it to fast and then your in trouble.



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Kelly Campbell

10-12-2005 09:38:46




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to old, 10-11-2005 18:35:12  
I had this problem about two weeks ago, I was running too fast through a BIG windrow. Baler filled up faster than I expected, luckaly no damage was done as I poped out the pto and shut down the tractor pretty really really fast. I've learned my lesson, it wasn't fun pulling hay that was packed into the baler.



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Ben i n KS

10-11-2005 19:28:45




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to old, 10-11-2005 18:35:12  
It will work fine. Make sure the shear pins and slip clutches are in working order. I pulled a 14T with a JD 4020 for a long time and never broke anything.



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edchainsaw

10-11-2005 21:11:42




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to Ben i n KS, 10-11-2005 19:28:45  
to much HP NO! its just overkill is all. only problem will be you use to much fuel.



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Hugh MacKay

10-12-2005 14:05:55




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to edchainsaw, 10-11-2005 21:11:42  
Ed: I was thinking the same as you. Going to be hard to pencil in a profit at current fuel prices.

And Oh those dirt cheap 100 hp tractors, usually end up parked in the back 40 bush, out of sight, with the owner either unwilling or unable to spend the kind of dollars to fix them. So many times, famous last words, "my dirt cheap 100+ hp tractor". That is until he steps up to the parts counter. I've been at this a looonnnngg time, never had a tractor yet that didn't require repairs, and I never did much farming with tractors over 20 years old.

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edchainsaw

10-11-2005 21:08:51




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to Ben i n KS, 10-11-2005 19:28:45  
we've run balers with a MF 2705 (120hp)
and a 4430 JD... both well over 100hp and to get proper speed of operation on the baler.. it needs to be close to 540 pto.. therefor you have to run close to full rpms...

as long as the shear bolts are good you will have no problems.... what problems can the big tractor cause if the shear bolts and clutches are working????? dont make sence to say over 100hp is a problem???

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edchainsaw

10-11-2005 21:07:54




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to Ben i n KS, 10-11-2005 19:28:45  
we've run balers with a MF 2705 (120hp)
and a 4430 JD... both well over 100hp and to get proper speed of operation on the baler.. it needs to be close to 540 pto.. therefor you have to run close to full rpms...

as long as the shear bolts are good you will have no problems.... what problems can the big tractor cause if the shear bolts and clutches are working????? dont make sence to say over 100hp is a problem???

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edchainsaw

10-11-2005 21:07:16




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to Ben i n KS, 10-11-2005 19:28:45  
we've run balers with a MF 2705 (120hp)
and a 4430 JD... both well over 100hp and to get proper speed of operation on the baler.. it needs to be close to 540 pto.. therefor you have to run close to full rpms...

as long as the shear bolts are good you will have no problems.... what problems can the big tractor cause if the shear bolts and clutches are working????? dont make sence to say over 100hp is a problem???

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Randy-IA

10-15-2005 08:45:16




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 Re: H.P. and baling in reply to edchainsaw, 10-11-2005 21:07:16  
Hi , I don't have years of experience but I do run my 14t with an 86 hp 1755 Oliver . I run at rated rpm or more ( 2400 rpm ) . I sheared a couple of pin's this year but that looked to be my fault , I was experimenting to see how much the baler could take in each gear and with different size windrows . I also took a lot of time to make sure that the baler was adjusted as right as I could make it with no experience with balers ( I made the plunger rather tight in the chamber and the replaced the bushing's in the pitman and sharpened the knives razor sharp with a fine file ) . I do agree that the 1755 isn't nimble enough for my small field . The pto and drawbar are to far forward of the rear end of the wheel's to make 90 degree turns and using the brakes tears up a LOT of real estate with a tractor this heavy ( around 12,000 lbs ) . As for the HP , I don't see how that makes any more of a difference than slightly higher fuel and maintanence cost's . If it's a hobby farm to make hay for your own horses and proffit doesn't mean a whole lot but enjoyment does then go for it ! I am ! Have fun and good luck ...Randy

PS - 3000 bales ! You have a LOT of horses !

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