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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Repowering baler with modern engine?

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Loren

08-27-2005 19:30:06

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Has anyone done this and had good luck with the engine selection? Mine is an old Case with the twin Wisconsin, shakes like a go-go dancer only this baby aint purdy! Noisy, hard starting, cowl is getting bad due to the vibration. Wondering about the twin B&S or Honda engines??? Loren.

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havvey

08-29-2005 04:59:12

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

loren, there seems to be a surplus of wisconsin engines you could find one all running or a good one and put your needed items on it. the torque is the issue but a 18-24 hp briggs kohler etc will run the baler. if you are happy with it i would rebuild or repower. contact me if you need wisconsin contacts.

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Loren

08-29-2005 17:02:03

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to havvey, 08-29-2005 04:59:12

If mine had a starter it'd make a world of difference. Real tough to get started first time for the season then starts real good cold after that. If you have to shut it down during a job and try to get it started again, look out. It's a beast. Someone said it something about it shouldn't be shaking. I thought the shake was inherent in the engine but if not then my thoughts go to the suspect flat belt drive pulley. It seems to run out more than I would like to see and maybe the shake is all that durned thing. I'd do some invetigation there but the starting issues has me just wanting it gone. Tired of wasting my time on that engine. :>(

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Leroy

08-29-2005 18:54:19

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-29-2005 17:02:03

That shaking is not normal, we had a 2 cyl wisconson on a NH 66 and was smoth running, wore it to point it was rebored, then wore it to point it needed it again but that is when we replaced the baler with a baler with a kicker because we could not find a kicker for that 66. We always carryed an extra fuel pump in tool box as that was most of problem in hard starting as the diafram in pump would start leaking and then would not pump the fuel up and you could put a starter on it, the engines came with that as an option and the batery cables were long enough to reach up to tractor battery for hookup as they did not put a generator or extra battery on the new holland baler, 6 volt. Check fore something else with the shaking, does it shake with clutch dissengaged or just when baler is running?

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Loren Coffin

08-29-2005 19:12:47

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Leroy, 08-29-2005 18:54:19

I notice it the most with the belt loose on the baler. But it must shake all the time because of what it's doing. The holes in the cowl are all broken to the point I spot welded washers on them to be able to use them. I started to figure a starter adaption from an auto application but gave up. I'm just going to do my best to get into a PTO instead. Unless I get another wild hair....

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Leroy

08-30-2005 05:15:28

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren Coffin, 08-29-2005 19:12:47

Sounds like you could be having valve timing problems from someone having the engine down at some time and not putting it back together corectly and that would also cause the hard starting. If you do trade balers, don't think it is possoble to find a PTO shaft for your old one or remove that engine and want to get rid of it let me know

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buickanddeere

08-28-2005 21:31:20

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

Square balers are dirt cheap now with large rounds and large squares being used. Have a look for a pto drive baler, non John Deeres have been going for $45 to $500 at farm autions around here. Even a Deere 336 with bale thrower is only $2500 at a Deere dealers lot near here. Still cheaper than finding a good smooth running, fuel efficient engine and doing a transplant.

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holcombwa

08-28-2005 21:07:40

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

Don't know if you will find engine to fill the torque requirement needed. Hate the twin wisconsin and constant fiddling to get and keep it running right each season. Called P.E.S. in Salem,OR (regional small engines parts wholesaler and distributor for Kohler and Tecumseh). Was told they didn't have anything that would put out the torque required to replace the wisconsin on our MF #12. I'm sure they could have probably lined us up with something we could have made work to some extent... but we decided to overhaul the wisconsin and keep cussin' instead.
Stan

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tim[in]

08-28-2005 21:03:31

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

some amish have adapted bull wheel drives on modern balers too and do not have trouble. this makes it ground driven. the amish are past masters at adapting modern machinery to suit their needs.they are already making brand new horse drawn equipment..

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Bernie in MA

08-28-2005 18:14:25

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

I have a 24T. Two years ago I mounted a second 2-cyl wis on top of the plunger housing in front of the feeder forks. I had the crown turned off the flywheel and run a single-backed double vee-belt off each engine side by side on the same flywheel. It works like a dream, walks thru big windrows and piles that would stall the engine even when I was stopped and creeping into them.

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dixit303

08-28-2005 09:54:30

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

If vibration is your problem,time to overhaul, internal problem. I am using a john deere 24T / 2 cylinder winsconsin and a new holland super/liner 78 / 4 cylinder winsconsin both electric start. Winsconsin proven reliable, strong, smooth, very econimcal on fuel for their application. I have only installed points and condensors with spark plugs at the start of each season for years. PTO application on balers, I would only use the smallest tractor needed 30 hp. Balers need to run at their full rpms. They are the best way to go.

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Loren

08-28-2005 09:51:14

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Thanks guys, as I suspected. in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

Hugh, the torque issue is exactly what I was most concerned about. I think I agree about the storage/starting situation too. If the engine was switched I think it'd HAVE to be stored inside. Maybe it's best I get ahold of 2 pto balers instead of one. Would really like to have a second one around to keep working should one go down. How many of you have "spare" balers just for this reason? Loren.

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Leroy

08-28-2005 07:13:09

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

You may have no opetion other than restoring that engine for that baler, no PTO parts avaible, or too small a tractor to pull & power baler on pto and if it is put together correct that engine will not shake, used one for many a year on a 66 NH baler, wore enough was bored and wore enough when got rid of baler need boring again, only reason got rid of baler was could not find a kicker for it and bought one with kicker. But the larger twins should power that baler, would just have to change gearing as new engins will run faster than the old Wisconsin and the new engins are put on the new forecarts from factory to power the balers for the Amish that still pull the balers with horses

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Chris Brown

08-28-2005 06:36:59

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

The Amish around here have several semi-modern balers with new engines on them. One I've been up close to is a JD 14T with a 12 hp tecumseh. A little under powered ,but it bales hay. Another I've seen from the road is a NH? ,one with the front flywheel. It is belt driven by a briggs V twin.

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jhill

08-28-2005 06:24:13

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

Problem is the cost of the engine is probably more than a newer baler with pto drive would cost.

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Hugh MacKay

08-28-2005 05:08:02

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

Loren: In this day and age, I wouldn't look for another engine. Modern engines will probably not have enough torque at proper RPM, to run the baler. Go with PTO drive. Baler engines have always been trouble. Problem is they sit 50 weeks of the year. I rather doubt new engines will take that as well as the old Wisconsin. Most balers are quite easy to change to PTO drive, just find a PTO driveline from same model. If is quite possible to bale with transmission driven PTO, if you go easy. Live PTO just gives you the option of high production.

My dad bought a new baler back in the 50s with Wisconsin engine as his old Farmall H did not have live PTO. For three years he cussed that Wisconsin engine. Each year by the time he got it working well haying was over. In 1955 he bought a new 300 with IPTO, PTO driveline for the baler and the Wisconsin engine went down the road to the highest bidder. My dad was looking for high production, and neither H or the Wisconsin engine achived that.

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Hugh MacKay

08-28-2005 04:58:30

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Re: Repowering baler with modern engine? in reply to Loren, 08-27-2005 19:30:06

Loren: In this day and age, I wouldn't look for another engine. Go with PTO drive. Baler engines have always been trouble. Problem is they sit 50 weeks of the year. I rather doubt new engines will take that as well as the old Wisconsin. Most balers are quite easy to change to PTO drive, just find a PTO driveline from same model.

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