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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY?

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bigJ

07-27-2005 18:19:53




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CAn somebody tell me why there is not an overriding clutch for the rollers on a 1207 JD Haybine. It just kills me to turn the pto off and have the whole machine stop dead. I asked them at the dealer and noone seems to know but agrees that there should be one. I thought maybe it was in the gearbox and that someone had put it together wrong. But no, I can't find anything in the parts book that resembles an overiding mechanism. Anybody know anything about this. Just does not make sense to me.

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buickanddeere

07-29-2005 22:37:26




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to bigJ, 07-27-2005 18:19:53  
In case of emergency the lack of over running clutches allow a quicker stop. Over running clutches cost money. Most farmers purchase the cheapest machine.



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buickanddeere

07-29-2005 22:36:24




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to bigJ, 07-27-2005 18:19:53  
In case of emergency the lack of over running clutches allow a quicker stop.



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Hay Dr

07-28-2005 05:04:41




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to bigJ, 07-27-2005 18:19:53  
The answer to your question is to set back and realize when that machine was designed. It was common in that day for those tractors to have a non-synchronized transmission. You can solve your problem by powering down the implement or inserting a PTO over-run clutch. How good were the good old days?



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Dick2

07-28-2005 04:50:06




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to bigJ, 07-27-2005 18:19:53  
The most probable cause is that the design engineers probably have never run a baler in their lives. I spent many years with equipment manufacturers - and learned that the best way to get an engineer to change his mind (and design) was to make him run the machine for awhile.



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504 Baler Guy

07-28-2005 17:32:17




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to Dick2, 07-28-2005 04:50:06  
Well I can vouch for the design engineers at Vermeer. We all run the equipment that we design. We all were raised on a farm. My idea about why there is no clutch is, if there is an obstuction you and shut the mower off quickly, doing less damage. To normally turn it off idle the tractor down then kill the PTO.



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Hugh MacKay

07-28-2005 02:09:35




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to bigJ, 07-27-2005 18:19:53  
bigJ: In my many years of farming, I've seen many examples of implements that could have used over running clutches very effectively, but they weren't there. I expect trying to keep costs down and competition was the single biggest reason for this.

One way to overcome this problem and I presume you are using a tractor with IPTO with a PTO brake, is to throttle tractor down to a very low idle before disengaging pto. You will also find at low idle, you are able to feather this somewhat. Deere probably made the decission not to include over running clutch, based on the fact, mower conditioners probably only get shut down 2-3 times during a working day. Certainly not like a manure spreader for example which may get shut down 5-6 time per hour.

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Ken Macfarlane

07-28-2005 04:53:29




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-28-2005 02:09:35  
2-3 times per working day? You must live out west! hehe! Our patchwork fields here need a lot more starts and stops.

Buy an external overruning clutch and you'd probably find a mower condtioner with its lightweight high drag parts doesn't run very long if you throttle down first.

Ken



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Hugh MacKay

07-30-2005 01:52:53




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 07-28-2005 04:53:29  
Ken: No, not out west, I actually farmed a lot of 10 to 30 acre fields. If your fields are as small as you make it sound, my suggestion would be a sythe, it would have a built in over running clutch.



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Errin OH

07-28-2005 07:36:23




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 07-28-2005 04:53:29  
Why? I have found that if I raise it all the way up and leave it going during the dead head across the end, it actually cleans (shakes) out any remaining hay and starts of clean on the next pass. Also cuts and cleans off any hay you pickup crossing cut windrows. There is nothing worse than grabing a wad of cut hay with that knife not moving as you turn around. Only time I shut down is to remove a clog or I am done.

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Ken Macfarlane

07-28-2005 08:44:00




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to Errin OH, 07-28-2005 07:36:23  
Why? It doesn't swing well when running, makes a rather loud clacking noise...



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Jerry D in NC

07-28-2005 09:56:16




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 07-28-2005 08:44:00  
Mine has the equal angle hitch and yeah it makes some noise lifted it is not more than I would expect or have experienced with other sickle machines. When you clear that bar from the ground it makes more racket than when it is down mowing. I don't understand the need for an override clutch on this machine. If it is making too much noise then you may want to check that your rollers are not adjusted wrong.

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Errin OH

07-28-2005 12:28:56




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to Jerry D in NC, 07-28-2005 09:56:16  
Hey Jerry,
I think the original post was with regards to the PTO brake brining the whole works to a stop when he disengaged the PTO. I could see that being a real problem and I bet contributes to the premature failure in pto brakes (like my Case has).

As for the noise (chatter) Ken is referring to; I don't quite understand where all the chatter is from unless the 1207 came with a one piece pto shaft. I could see it then. With the two piece equal angle, I can just about put that machine at a 90 deg angle before the pto starts chattering. The manual states that the hitch should be in a straight line (Horz) when installed. Up vs Down shouldn�t change it that much.

BTW � I had to pull the wobble box and replace a bearing. In the process found the crack you talked about on the tongue. Bout half way around on top. Can�t see the bottom. Guess that�s next.

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Jerry D in NC

07-29-2005 03:41:18




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to Errin OH, 07-28-2005 12:28:56  
I see the issue with PTO brakes. The little Ford I run mine on freespools with the dual stage clutch.

Don't forget to check the mounting braces for the main drive gearbox as well.... LOL



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Ken Macfarlane

07-28-2005 13:12:01




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 Re: NO OVERIDING CLUTCH- WHY? in reply to Errin OH, 07-28-2005 12:28:56  
Sorry to be vague, typically our fields are small and the access between them is tight and on the road, so the machine has to lifted and swung.

I can't image anyone leaving it running while swung as the u-joints make a racket and it shakes the thing. This is my experience when rolling it over with the tractor after a repair when it is still in transport mode.

A full days mowing here would involve a half dozen or more swings in each direction.

It is one of the things I dislike on our JD336, the swing isn't ball bearing or bushing but rather a metal on metal slide and is a royal pain.

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