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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Figured wrong; bale conversion.

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txgrn

07-10-2005 05:47:15




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Had a horse owner wanting more hay. Was down to my last 65# squares but had some nice 1500# 5 x 5 1/2 rolls. Figured I'd bust up the roll and make some squares.

Let's see....Hmmmmm. 1500# divided by 65# should yield 23 squares. That should be adequate to pay me extra for my trouble.

Wrong! Got 12.

Hmmmmm m

Mark




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buss

07-10-2005 17:40:50




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to txgrn, 07-10-2005 05:47:15  
I think if it has been compressed once like in round bales it will yield less than loose hay so you proably have heavier bales than you think.



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txgrn

07-11-2005 07:10:18




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to buss, 07-10-2005 17:40:50  
Maybe I'll go and weigh them. What this is all about is trying to get a handle on the relationship between the two types of baling for pricing purposes.

Since you go to so much more trouble with squares, you'd think you would be able to get a better advantage.

If this test was any ways accurate, it says that I only got $36 dollars for squares that I could have gotten $30 for the roll with one heck of a lot less trouble and time expended and expense.

Maybe my horse neighbors need to shop elsewhere. Grin.

Thanks,

Mark

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txgrn

07-11-2005 07:10:04




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to buss, 07-10-2005 17:40:50  
Maybe I'll go and weigh them. What this is all about is trying to get a handle on the relationship between the two types of baling for pricing purposes.

Since you go to so much more trouble with squares, you'd think you would be able to get a better advantage.

If this test was any ways accurate, it says that I only got $36 dollars for squares that I could have gotten $30 for the roll with one heck of a lot less trouble and time expended and expense.

Maybe my horse neighbors need to shop elsewhere. Grin.

Thanks,

Mark

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Joe(TX)

07-10-2005 08:35:29




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to txgrn, 07-10-2005 05:47:15  
As BobMo said, You still have the same weight of hay no matter how its baled. You probably did not have 1500 lb round bales or did not have 65 lb squares. 12 sq at 65 lb is 780 lb. Did you actually weigh them or are you approximating?



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txgrn

07-11-2005 07:05:33




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Joe(TX), 07-10-2005 08:35:29  
Approximating. Course you know as well as I that moisture content is the big variable and these had time to dry out from the moisture content that existed when originally baled.

I went in with a 5x5.5 roll and came out with 16x18x36 squares.I'll do a quick calc and see what the area's are: This is interesting. The area of the roll in cubic inches is 205260. 12 squares of the dimensions mentioned are only 124416.

Pretty much attests to the fact that the squares are much more dense than the roll. Hmmmmm.

Thanks,

Mark

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Hugh MacKay

07-10-2005 16:37:55




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Joe(TX), 07-10-2005 08:35:29  
Joe: You have a good point, more often than not small square twine tied bales are 40-50 lbs. and big rounds are in the 500-700 lb. range. Most farmers kept the small squares that way on purpose as they relied on a lot of very young help. Those bales just seem like 65 lbs. to the guy that sits at a desk all day, or not really in good physical shape for numerous reasons.

60-80 lb. bales were the order of the day back in the days of wire tie balers, hay hooks and iron men. For most of North America that was a long time ago.

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txgrn

07-11-2005 07:18:28




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-10-2005 16:37:55  
These aren't small Hugh. My last baler was a JD 24T and it put out 14x18x36. This is an old Ford 150 and it puts out 16x18x36 wire tied.

Speaking of iron men, I take my hat off to the farmers that did their chores before the advent of mechanised harvesting equipment.

Speaking of that, I will never forget the picture I saw in an early school text book about Eli Whitney inventing the cotton gin....or was it the wheat harvester.....naw that was McCormick. Geez that was eons ago.

Mark

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Allan in NE

07-11-2005 05:09:28




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-10-2005 16:37:55  
I agree,

If a small square baler is building 65 pound bales, something is dreadfully wrong. They should be coming in at 90 lbs and up to around 105 pounds in good heavy alfalfa hay.

'Nother reason that the small squares are a totally silly way of puttin' up hay.

Just my view and stated as such. :>)

Allan



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Allan in NE

07-11-2005 05:06:28




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-10-2005 16:37:55  
I agree,

If a small square baler is building 65 pound bales, something is dreadfully wrong. They should be coming in at 90 lbs and up to around 105 pounds in good heavy alfalfa hay.

'Nother reason that the small squares are a totally silly way of puttin' up hay.

Just my view and stated as such. :>)

Allan



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txgrn

07-11-2005 07:13:40




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Allan in NE, 07-11-2005 05:06:28  
The grass is coastal bermuda. Your alfalfa is much heavier.

Been a long time since I saw an alfalfa bale, but as I recall, it was quite small....dunno the dimensions, just recall mentally taking note of how small it was as compared to coastal bales I had seen.....course I was distracted by the leaves falling off....didn't like that.

Mark



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Tx Jim

07-10-2005 07:29:27




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to txgrn, 07-10-2005 05:47:15  
txgrn,are these some bales from the JD 530? If so, something is wrong with hyd.tension as rolls should have producved more squares. Maybe you were sq.baling some of Allan's NH rolls! He-He Tx Jim



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txgrn

07-11-2005 06:53:46




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Tx Jim, 07-10-2005 07:29:27  
Yepper. They were tight enough when I made the conversion I couldn't push my hand in the roll, just my fingers.....ties were about 3" apart around the roll.

While you are on here Jim, question:

My bales don't start the tie very well. The book says to have about 12" of string sticking out of the tube in the stow position; I have about 10-11.

You know it first makes a sweep across so that the bale can snag the string then it comes back and ties the roll. If it misses the sweep snag, it always catches it on the way back, but if you weren't paying attention, you will dump a half tied bale; the second half of the tie distance.

It says to keep feeding product into the chamber for a couple of seconds after the blinking light changes to solid....meaning that the tie arm has started the cycle.

I put a little roller on the feed line (up on the side of the baler) and painted black stripes on it so that I can easily see when the string has snagged and it has started....helps knowing, but does nothing for snagging.

Maybe I just need to bale with it some more and get used to it. I pretty much have it adjusted per the book.....except the cutter....maybe I need to adjust that so I have more string dangling.

Thanks.

Mark

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Tx Jim

07-11-2005 10:38:32




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 twine in reply to txgrn, 07-11-2005 06:53:46  
Mark,if I remember correctly,the length of twine hanging out of twine tube is not adjustable.If twine tension is too high it will cause twine to be late starting on bale.It helps to not slam on brakes when amber light turns solid.Have you ever weighed any of your rd. bales? I can't understand why you didn't get any more sq's than you did out one rd. bale.Jim



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txgrn

07-11-2005 18:39:42




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 Re: twine in reply to Tx Jim, 07-11-2005 10:38:32  
No but I have a new Koyker 310 on a JD 4010 and I dumped half dozen bales the other day that the thing could hardly lift. These were accidents; measured 6.5 dia.....first bales; thought the previous owner had the machine set up....obviously didn't. Didn't have time to stop and fix it as rain was coming and wanted to get it rolled. Got her fixed now and set to 5.5.

On the 5.5 dia bales, I can lift the front end of a 52hp Ford 4600 off the ground with 2 front wheel weights bolted to the front bumper. So the 1500# number isn't that far off.

This is the first time that I had the opportunity to do a one on one comparison. I was really surprised also.

Thanks,

Mark

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Allan in NE

07-10-2005 08:16:25




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Tx Jim, 07-10-2005 07:29:27  
Hi Jim,

I've checked with every blessed cow I can find.

Aparently, and from my quickly arranged and unscientific poll, they don't seem to care what the bales look like. :>)

Allan



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txgrn

07-11-2005 06:55:34




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Allan in NE, 07-10-2005 08:16:25  
I had to laugh at that cause half of mine look as good (er ah bad) as yours....LMAO.....the ones that don't snag the string on the pass-by.

Get em Allan.

Mark



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Allan in NE

07-11-2005 07:09:55




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to txgrn, 07-11-2005 06:55:34  
Yes,

I take a certain amount of pride in my bad bales. It is a 'country' boy thing, ya know. :>)

Allan



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txgrn

07-11-2005 07:19:34




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Allan in NE, 07-11-2005 07:09:55  
Boy that was quick. Grin.

Mark



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Allan in NE

07-11-2005 07:06:55




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to txgrn, 07-11-2005 06:55:34  
Yes,

I take a certain amount of pride in my bad bales. It is a 'country' boy thing, ya know. :>)

Allan



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Tx Jim

07-10-2005 12:43:52




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 Excuse me,I was refering to #'s not beauty in reply to Allan in NE, 07-10-2005 08:16:25  
Allan, roll out one of your rolls and sq. bale it so txgrn will have a comparison.Pleeez,Tx Jim



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txgrn

07-11-2005 18:41:09




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 Re: Excuse me,I was refering to #'s not beauty in reply to Tx Jim, 07-10-2005 12:43:52  
Thanks, Jim-bo



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Hugh MacKay

07-10-2005 08:40:54




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Allan in NE, 07-10-2005 08:16:25  
Allan: That's right, it's all about the most economical way to get quality feed from the field to the cow's mouth. Apparently looks counts in some cases.



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txgrn

07-11-2005 06:57:41




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 07-10-2005 08:40:54  
Hi Hugh,

I like to get them properly tied if I can cause it helps them shed water and preserve longer...and to get all the bale to the pasture..as you surely know.

Mark



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Allan in NE

07-10-2005 08:13:26




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Tx Jim, 07-10-2005 07:29:27  
Hi Jim,

I've checked with every blessed cow I can find.

Aparently, and from my quickly arranged and unscientific poll, they don't seem to care what the bales look like. :>)

Allan



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txgrn

07-11-2005 07:21:15




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Allan in NE, 07-10-2005 08:13:26  
Good laugh. We're having fun.

Mark



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BobMo

07-10-2005 07:28:16




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to txgrn, 07-10-2005 05:47:15  
The weight of the hay don't change because of the baler, so that leaves 2 possibilities. The round bales aren't tight and weight less or the squares are tight and weigh more. More likely the first. If it was recently baled its all hollow stems and therefor light. Small food value regardless of the looks.



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txgrn

07-11-2005 06:44:43




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to BobMo, 07-10-2005 07:28:16  
Well it was a rebale job and it had been baled long enough to dry out which would allow for more compaction than had it been baled straight into squares.

Thanks,

Mark



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txgrn

07-11-2005 06:43:52




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to BobMo, 07-10-2005 07:28:16  
Well it was a rebale job and it had been baled long enough to dry out which would allow for more compaction than had it been baled straight into squares.

Thanks,

Mark



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Allan in NE

07-10-2005 06:02:24




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to txgrn, 07-10-2005 05:47:15  
Mark,

I'd wade thru a cowboy fist-fight before I'd fool with small squares, but the little balers cut and compress; the rounders don't.

'Spose that is where the difference is?

Dunno,

Allan



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txgrn

07-11-2005 06:42:08




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 Re: Figured wrong; bale conversion. in reply to Allan in NE, 07-10-2005 06:02:24  
Got these horse neighbors and this grass pasture behind the house. Really too good for cows when I can square it and sell it to horse folks....but I did think I was making a low more on the squares than I am.

Mark



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