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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines

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jimont

06-26-2005 18:02:55




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We've had a 479 NH haybine for over 30 yrs and have had absolutely no problems with this machine. However, time marches on and I'm trying to prepare for the inevitable time when it'll have to be replaced. I've heard that regrowth is faster with a conventional cutter bar over a discbine because it produces a cleaner cut. Are there any facts to back this up ? Additional pluses or minuses to either style machine ? I learned a long time ago to fully research a machine before purchasing. Thanks in advance .

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RickL

06-27-2005 06:26:54




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to jimont, 06-26-2005 18:02:55  
JImont; Where are you located, if you were half way close come over and run one of the unit Ihave here. RunNH 449 center pivot sickle job, 8312 case Ih disbine centerpivot unit,and used yesterday JD 1460 disc mow co. This is my feelings.I thought same thing at first about crop not coming back as soon but don't now even if it did some which I don't see now. Dad And I run in same field and he has deere sickleunit and me have the 1460. can tell any to hardly differnce because the only thing we see is that I am actually cutting closer than he does that was the diffeerence. If crop is really laying flat they will both go over the top sometimes,run into it and tip the bar a little different and the disc unit will shave it up better due to the suction created some. The sickle machine has a little more trouble in damp tough conditons wher the disc doesn't care. When I purchase another machine it will be disc bine with rubber/steel rolls. the advantages to me out way the horror stories you here. Some discbines in thin crops will streak little bit but geneerally you can slow the rpms down and it will eliminate most of it. sickle will streak at times to in real thin stuff. This is important with both machines. SHARP SICKLE OR KNIVES AND MACHINE ADJUSTED TO RUN CORRECTLY,BAR SET RIGHT AAND ALLOWED TO FLOAT. If you do the above they can be both nice machines to have. The disc style will just go anytime through anything. But under normal and good running conditions you can run fine with either unit. Have some of both units available also if that would help you out any. I grew up running no 5 sickles and oliver 37 sickle mowers,would not want to go back if had much to due. So it still comes down to what you like and if it makes you feel better with sickle then do that. If you like it then nothing else matters period.

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jimont

06-27-2005 09:08:21




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to RickL, 06-27-2005 06:26:54  
Thanks for the offer Rick. I'm in Southern Ontario and greatly appreciate both your advice and offer. We should get through the rest of our first cut ok and if we don't get rain soon , there'll be little to none 2nd cut. We're into both the longest dry spell and period of prolonged 90 degree temps since 1949 here. Last year, couldn't buy 2 dry days in a row !



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RickL

06-27-2005 09:45:23




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to jimont, 06-27-2005 09:08:21  
I just got done raking 2nd cut (turn it over) 94 degrees out right now, it might go late,usually i need two drying days,humidity terrible so just have to see. i use accumulator system so heat usually not problem,can't get help anyway if tried. I hope I helped you out some anyway. RickL



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RickL

06-27-2005 09:45:15




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to jimont, 06-27-2005 09:08:21  
I just got done raking 2nd cut (turn it over) 94 degrees out right now, it might go late,usually i need two drying days,humidity terrible so just have to see. i use accumulator system so heat usually not problem,can't get help anyway if tried. I hope I helped you out some anyway. RickL



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Doug in IL

06-27-2005 05:24:51




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to jimont, 06-26-2005 18:02:55  
The disc type cutters are grass cutters. A discbine is not as good as a sickle machine in alfalfa. A disc type cutter WILL slow alfalfa regrowth.Also, I have seen a lot of 18 inch long alfalfa stems completely stripped of leaves by disc conditioners. One time, two years ago, it was a brand new JD disc conditioner stripping leaves. I don't understand everyone plugging up a sickle type machine. I've plugged mine twice in 8 years. One of those times I was trying to finish cutting in a light rain! The secret to a sickle machine is stub gaurds. That, and bolt on sections. I pull my sickle type machine at 6 mph most of the time. If you have grass hay, by all means, use a disc machine. In good alfalfa. I'll stick with the sickle. Actually, the sickles seem to be making somewhat of a come back around here. I have seen a few dealers ordering in new ones for stock. And good used ones are bringing good money.

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mlm

06-27-2005 22:43:13




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to Doug in IL, 06-27-2005 05:24:51  
What kind of sickle machine do you have? maybe some brands don't plug much.



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Hayman

06-28-2005 10:58:16




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 No they all plug up at times in reply to mlm, 06-27-2005 22:43:13  
My old NH haybine never plugged up the condtioner rollers. They were nice and wide on it and worked fine. It was the cutter bar when you hit some wet dirt or that tough fine wet grass. We would keep the sickel new, actually replace it at the start of each season most years. Also we carried a spare on top of the mower. The gaurds would get replaced regularly too as a set ,as they can't get slopped out and be expected to perform. Speed was a factor also, in heavy first cut it was slow going. If you pushed too hard you'd take out he rubber bushing in the sickel head. In second cut which tends to be lighter we would go a gear faster. With my CIH 3309 disc mower/conditoner I travel 8+ MPH most times all year long. Unless I know there is lots of moles so I slow down for them plus it's rough too. Another thing about my little CIH disc mower is it has NO belts or chains. The gear box runs in oil the cutter bar runs in grease and is modular. The condtioning roller bearings are greasable too. Where as my old haybine was more maintance and up keep with all the belts, chains & bearings.

My father wasn't on board at first but after one day on the tractor with the disc mower he swore he'd never go back and wished he'd had one 25 year ago!

I will say I'm sure or hope a new sickel haybine would cut and perform better then the early 70's vintage one we had. We cut a fair bit of hay and a 9ft works good for square baling which is all we do. In my area many farmers still use the 12-14ft hydro swing sickel machines too. Straight alfalfa in clean fields here a sickel machine works fine. Add mole hills and grass to the mix and it gets difficult some years.

Last fall a custom guy I know with a slef propelled disc mower was real busy cause sickel mowers simply couldn't cut last years second cut. It was one of those real tough ones.

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Doug in IL

06-28-2005 04:15:42




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to mlm, 06-27-2005 22:43:13  
It's a Case International. I'll be darn if I can remember the model number right now!



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Hayman

06-26-2005 23:46:56




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to jimont, 06-26-2005 18:02:55  
We had a NH haybine from 72' till around 1990 I think. It cut a lot of hay over they years. One day I borrowed my nieghbors 9ft disc mower to try out and was impressed.

So we got a CIH 3309 which is a New Idea 9ft painted red. NO comparison when it comes to cutting speed. Sure the old haybine cut hay but nothing like this disc mower. Some days with the old haybine I would be on and off constantly unpluging the cutter bar. Especailly in our 2nd cut with fine wet grass in it under the alfalfa. That stuff was a pain to cut sometmies but with the disc mower its no problem.

I will say though in fields where the alfalfa is laying down bad the disc mower does not clean it off as good when you travel the way its laying.

The blades last a long time too. As long as your not leveling out mole hills all day!!! Thats hard on them when you smash through mounds of dirt constantly at high speed.

I feel its best if you don't stick a 150hp tractor on a little 9ft disc mower etc. I use a 85-95 hp tractors on my 9ft mower and its seems about right. You can feel it when the disc mower is working hard etc. Also keep your blades sharp, its cuts way harder when you just have little chunks of metal left spinning around. Plus it doesn't make as clean as cut either with crappy blades.

I have not noticed any differance in regrowth over the last 15 years.

So I'd give disc mowers the "thumbs up" especailly if you have lots of acres to cover.

But if your only doing a small amount then it may not be economically practical when you can find old haybines for a few hunderd bucks.

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Roy in UK

06-26-2005 22:32:12




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to jimont, 06-26-2005 18:02:55  
Slower regrowth? nah its a myth. You might as well say "I won't let my cows graze my pasture because their teeth don't cut it like a lawnmower ".As for a clean cut, I am sure a sickle thats beginning to to get dull 'rags' it more than any disc or drum mower. Those drums/discs spin at 3000rpm.



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txgrn

06-27-2005 05:00:15




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to Roy in UK, 06-26-2005 22:32:12  
That's interesting (3000rpm's). What's there to keep a blade from breaking and coming at you. Guess that's what that canvas cover is for (Ha!); to deflect things that could hit you.

I have shopped them 3 times and declined all 3 times. I hear what people say, and have seen fields cut by them, but I just don't like them.....an then there is the mounting and dismounting, the sideways load on the tractor, and the relative cost.

I like my JD 1209 swather just fine. The only thing that I can't cut is wire grass and I don't encounter that very often; usually not haying, but cleaning up a pasture. So I get out my bush hog thing and go to whacking; prefer that anyway as you never know what you are going to encounter cleaning up and I'd rather have the mower directly behind me than out to the side where it can get caught on something, or I misjudge an obstruction that I CAN see.

Mark

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Roy in UK

06-27-2005 05:23:30




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to txgrn, 06-27-2005 05:00:15  
If you are happy with what you have got that is all that matters.I would never dream of using a disc/drum mower without a canvas, it is there for a reason . I have cut literally thousands of acres with a disc mower without any incident involving thrown rocks etc, but I alway made sure that the cover was in good condition.. The blades themselves rarely break, I think it must be similar steel to what rotovator blades are made of. When we bought our 8 foot mounted Lely mower/conditioner and first put on our MF 168 I thought I might have problems with it wanting to veer to the right all the time, especially in thick crops..... I hardly knew it was back there.Once those skids underneath get shiny they just glide along. What I did not miss about the sickle type mower was the sharpening / replacing sickle sections,replacing ledger plates, replacing/ bending back fingers and getting frustrated with the thing when I encountered "woolly" undergrowth.

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txgrn

06-28-2005 05:08:31




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to Roy in UK, 06-27-2005 05:23:30  
Thanks Roy for the comments.

Tell me about the oil. I understand the towers on each end are oil filled as is the bottom where the gearing is. Have you had any problems with leakage? Is there any maintenance associated with that?

What PTO hp is the 168? Trying to correlate your tractor size vs 8' mower vs your comments.

Do you leave it on the tractor all the time or do you remove it after cutting? Hence how difficult is it for you to remove and replace it?

Thanks,

Mark

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JiminIA

06-26-2005 19:53:07




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to jimont, 06-26-2005 18:02:55  
I would hate think about how many thousands of trouble free acres our NH 489 did,traded it on a kuhn discmoco with the gyrodine hitch three years ago. I hate to think about mowin with one of the frazzlin sickle bars ever again. Heavy wet layed down stomped on hay is no problem any more. Can change all the blades in about 15 mins. I think they cut the field cleaner.Never noticed any regrowth problems. just keep good blades on it. IMHO it is the way to go if you do any amount of hay...Jim

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MNfarmer

06-26-2005 19:04:40




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to jimont, 06-26-2005 18:02:55  
I just got a discbine, they really cut nice and can go through anything, however if I were not putting up much hay I would have went with a haybine, cheaper usually and take less HP to run. They may take a little more tinkering to make them go than a discbine but they will still cut as good. Hope this helps..One more thing, if you do decide to upgrade to a newer haybind DO NOT go with deere. stick with NH. We have a 1219 deere and it is junk, always working on it. just my opinion though, hope this helps you out.

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jimont

06-27-2005 05:28:27




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to MNfarmer, 06-26-2005 19:04:40  
Thanks for the input fellas , EXPERIENCE beats SALESMANSHIP everytime !!!!



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Roper6365

06-27-2005 22:49:52




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 Re: Discbines Vs Conventional Haybines in reply to jimont, 06-27-2005 05:28:27  
I'v got a NH 467 Haybine and A NH 411 Discbine. The Discbine is for sale. No doubt you can get the job done faster with a DB but I like the cut of a haybine and I can enjoy my entire cigar and mabey even have time for a second :)



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