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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Power to machine shed 1500 feet away

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smirkey

06-14-2005 10:20:35




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i see some electric lineman are on this discussion board so i will ask this question. I am planning to build an inexpensive hay shed/machinery barn about 1500 feet from the homestead power source. I'd like electric power there instead of a using a generator for intermittent use. ( hay elevator, lights. battery charger. etc) Do you think i could splice 600 foot rolls of regular underground 10/2 or so wire to supply power. what othere suggestions might one have?

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buickanddeere

06-15-2005 18:40:03




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
#10 will let you legally run a 1.5 amp 240V load. Stepping up to 600V at your house service and back down to 120/240 at the shed will allow 2250 VA. That's 18.75amp on 120V or 9.375amp on 240V. I happened to measure today the VD on a 100 ft #12 extention cord and through the 200amp service right back to the pole trans 250 ft away. The load was my old power washer drawing 13A at 120V. The voltage dropped from 120.1V to 115.3V . That's a 4% drop. It's making a portable generator look good. Plus you have will have a generator to keep the ice cream frozen during the next utility blackout.

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Bus Driver

06-15-2005 10:06:48




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
From a technical viewpoint, the best solution is a service from the POCO for that building. If the monthly minimum is problem, the cost of installing from your existing service will be a much bigger problem. To use the existing service, consider using a 600 volt stepup transformer at the existing building, sending 600 volts to the new building and then step down to the 120/240. Much of the commonly available wire is rated for 600 volts maximum, so none of the much-more-expensive high voltage wire will be required. Transformers are not cheap nor is the amount of wire that is required. But at 600 volts, the voltage drop at a particular amperage use will be only 40% of the drop at 240 volts. Smaller wire can thus be used.

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Bus Driver

06-15-2005 10:06:39




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
From a technical viewpoint, the best solution is a service from the POCO for that building. If the monthly minimum is problem, the cost of installing from your existing service will be a much bigger problem. To use the existing service, consider using a 600 volt stepup transformer at the existing building, sending 600 volts to the new building and then step down to the 120/240. Much of the commonly available wire is rated for 600 volts maximum, so none of the much-more-expensive high voltage wire will be required. Transformers are not cheap nor is the amount of wire that is required. But at 600 volts, the voltage drop at a particular amperage use will be only 40% of the drop at 240 volts. Smaller wire can thus be used.

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Kevin Bismark

06-14-2005 17:11:33




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
Well, at that distance, and 240 volts, if you wanted to run 100 amps that would be 600 KCM wire, copper to keep the voltage drop down, you don"t want to pull wire that big, it can be a hastle when you are set up to do it every day, you can hardly bend it to get it in the lugs, I would just have the power company set a transformer close to the shed, that would be the best bet, a few years ago we pulled 9, 750 KCM per phase on a job for each of the 2 services in the place, that was a job and a half..

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FC

06-14-2005 12:58:20




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
1500 ft. is a long run...too much for 10 ga. I would talk to the power company first and go from there. The tri-plex is an option, I ran tri-plex underground in the plastic conduit from the power pole to my house and cannot remember the cost but then again it was only about 150 feet. Seems like I spent around $400 for 4/0 and the conduit about 2 years ago. I ran #6 for my shop, but then it was only 10 or so feet away from the power pole, and I only run lights, and an air compressor on occassion. I caught some slightly damages #6 for that a Lowes for 1/2 price....the covering was slit, but I put it in conduit anyway and buried it. Works just fine.

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roper6365

06-14-2005 12:54:41




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
Hey Smirkey, I'm not an elictrician but I do work in a powerplant, Your going to need somthing like a 2000kcmil cable for 1500ft. Even with that using aluminum there is a 2% drop. With a 240 volt single phase service you will have 237 volts at the end of the run. If you use standard 4/0 copper you'll loose about 18% or 20 or so volts. If I can help just email me and i'll get better info from one of the electricians here.

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roper6365

06-14-2005 12:53:25




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
Hey Smirkey, I'm not an elictrician but I do work in a powerplant, Your going to need somthing like a 2000kcmil cable for 1500ft. Even with that using aluminum there is a 2% drop. With a 240 volt single phase service you will have 237 volts at the end of the run. If you use standard 4/0 copper you'll loose about 18% or 20 or so volts. If I can help just email me and i'll get better info from one of the electricians here.

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Illinois Boy

06-14-2005 10:48:03




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
I'm not an electrician or lineman, but I can tell you that 1500 feet of 10/2 won't work. The voltage drop will be too large to do much of anything. You're going to need some heavier wire (at leat 00 aluminum) to get the job done. You can go to a smaller size with copper, but copper wire will kill your wallet. Some one here may even advise 000 aluminum.
Sounds like most of your loads will be in the 110v range, but not sure about the hay elevator. If that's 220v you'll need something else. You might want to contact your power company or REA and get advice from them. 1500 feet is a long way and they may need to run primary to a transformer for you. By the way, underground is more expensive than aerial wire (tri-plex) but you don't have to fool with poles or put up with power outages from downed trees.
Just my $0.02 worth...

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paul

06-14-2005 11:48:04




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to Illinois Boy, 06-14-2005 10:48:03  
I would sure advise 220v for that distance, if it is possible at all - you would want a 220v motor even if it were small, much less line drop, can pull from both sides for 110 loads. He needs to identify what his max load will be, the elevator, and what he is talking about - a 15' with a 110 1/3 hp motor, or a 40' one with a 5hp electric on it. We best not assume. Electric motors do _not_ like line losses, and they pull a big spike of electricity to start up, so this will be the deal maker/ breaker. Will need much more than 2/10 for any electric motor anyhow for sure. (I'm living on borrowed time running a 2hp on 300' of 3/8 wire, can really dim the lights....)

I think the Voltage Drop Calculator I am adding a link to is saying you would need a cable (bigger than 3/0, they list 400MCM al cable whatever that is?) to run a 20 amp 120v curcit 1500 feet, you need 4/0 Al wire for a 20 amp 240. That sounds expensive for a 20 amp curcit...

I just called the electrician for an estimate in 2 weeks. Last time this farm saw one was back in the mid-50s, overhead 8ga wire with a 60 amp main service. Just kinda can't do anything any more, and the condition is getting frail... I need that whole backbone replaced. Wonder what that will cost, want to do my own interior work, but want a good starting foundation - A 'T' setup of lines from the main pole, 300' with 4 outbuildings, 250' with 5 buildings, and 75' to the house with a good new curcut breaker. Kinda figure I should plan for a 5hp motor at any of the ends, but currently I am so limited I have rather low requirements and not really need the buildings themselves hulked up at this time???

I guess I'll be sitting down with a bottle of asprin when I get the slip....

--->Paul

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Illinois By

06-14-2005 10:47:21




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
I'm not an electrician or lineman, but I can tell you that 1600 feet of 10/2 won't work. The voltage drop will be too large to do much of anything. You're going to need some heavier wire (at leat 00 aluminum) to get the job done. You can go to a smaller size with copper, but copper wire will kill your wallet. Some one here may even advise 000 aluminum.
Sounds like most of your loads will be in the 110v range, but not sure about the hay elevator. If that's 220v you'll need something else. You might want to contact your power company or REA and get advice from them. 1600 feet is a long way and they may need to run primary to a transformer for you. By the way, underground is more expensive than aerial wire (tri-plex) but you don't have to fool with poles or put up with power outages from downed trees.
Just my $0.02 worth...

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old

06-14-2005 10:45:19




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 Re: Power to machine shed 1500 feet away in reply to smirkey, 06-14-2005 10:20:35  
Not a line man but was an electronics teck years ago. The 10/2 will not be heavy enough to do more then maybe work a few lights, to much line loose. If all you want is 110 volts #6 would probably do but you would still be limited to how much you did. Might be cheaper just to have the power company put in another meter. They have something like a $10 mim. charge here but thats not to bad when you figure it will cost you a few $100 to do it your way.

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