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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

haying equip advice

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chas

04-29-2005 22:41:28




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I currently use NH 273 baler, with 7' NH rake, NH 450 sicle mower and a NAA tractor. Only bale about 2000 bales/yr. Been baleing for 6 yrs
Recently purchases a good AC D17 series III tractor. Getting too old to buck bales. What haybine and round baler would go good with the D17? Have a few cows and horses to feed plus friends that would buy extra hay.
Thanks for advice!!




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rbt

04-30-2005 19:33:59




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to chas, 04-29-2005 22:41:28  
If you are wanting a haybine, I would recommend a NH 488. It is 9 foot cut, just be sure you get the stub guards on it. I can mow when it is raining if I want to with the stub guards. A 4x5 or smaller round baler would probably be best for a d-17, I have a 5x5 I use on a 180 and it pulls fairly hard.



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Hay Dr

04-30-2005 06:24:04




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to chas, 04-29-2005 22:41:28  
third party image

Forget the haybine, you'll be better off getting you a drum mower and a tedder. You can purchase a NEW CCM drum mower for the same money or less than a good used haybine. With the drum mower you can mow in the mornings or evenings when the haybine will not mow because the grass is wet. The drum mower will mow as fast as you can ride the tractor. You will be finished mowing with the drum mower before you can start with the haybine.

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REDEYE

04-30-2005 06:59:34




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Hay Dr, 04-30-2005 06:24:04  
what about conditioning the hay? do the drums beat it up to condition it or just cut it off, and would it knock the leaves off of alfalfa?



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Hay Dr

04-30-2005 07:32:03




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to REDEYE, 04-30-2005 06:59:34  
No there is little conditioning effect with a standard drum mower. The drum mower will not knock the leaves off alfalfa. Remember you can mow in the mornings or evenings when you could not with a haybine.



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Luke S

04-30-2005 06:34:55




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Hay Dr, 04-30-2005 06:24:04  
Ok, I got a dumb hay question. I currently am going to bale hay with a John deere 1217 mower conditioner, a NH256 dolly wheel rake, and a Hesston 5500 round baler. My tractors are a Kubota M4700 and an Oliver 1955 Diesel. I can not decide if I need to buy a tedder or not? I know where there is a nice 2 basket rossi I can get for about $700-$800. Is it worth the investment for a hobby hay farmer like myself making about 80 acres of hay for our own horses and selling the rest? I keep gettign more and more money into this "hobby". I gave $1250 for the moco, $1500 for the rake, $2200 for the baler, $6000 for the Big Oliver and another $1500 in parts on it, $1000 in repairs this spring on the Hesston, $3000 for a side dump bale trailer, and $16000 for the M4700 Kubota with loader(all ready had it). So I got nearly $16500 in the stuff not counting the Kubota cause I all ready had it. I guess I should go ahead and spend another $700-800 but darn it is getting to the point where it is not a hobby anymore? What do you guys thing? Am I losing my mind?

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Chas

05-01-2005 06:30:43




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Luke S, 04-30-2005 06:34:55  
ok guys, heres my questions:

I live in central Ill where the humidity is high. Except for maybe July and Aug, any hay I mow has to be baled within two or three days otherwise it gets rained on. I figured using a haybine would condition the hay and allow me to bale sooner thus keeping the hay from getting wet. Plus I'm told using the haybine is lot less trouble mowing than my sicle mower. Never seen a drum mower in these parts! Sounds like a good mower, does it still leave the stems long? Wouldn't I still have to condition in order to bale right away?
Yes, the hay does bunch up using sicle mower and is a pain in the neck, not to mention the drying and mold problem. Sounds like if I get a tedder it would help but that means another trip over the fields. Does a tedder knock the leaves off alfalfa which is what most of my hay is? I'm still leaning toward haybine but want to explore all options. Also I've been told by others that round bales can be baled sooner than square bales. Seems to me the hay would be more likly to mold in round bales than in square.

This is great forum. Thanks for advice

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Hay Dr

05-01-2005 10:08:34




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Chas, 05-01-2005 06:30:43  
Luke S,
You are correct concerning moisture content. The main reason hay molds in round bales is because people actually take the attitude that they have more latitude in extra because of the larger bale. The truth is hay going in to round bales should be in better condition than if it was going to be square bales. Farmers know what will happen if they put hay in the barn that was baled with high moisture, spontaneous combustion. So farmers make sure the hay going into square bales in less than 18% moisture. They leave the round bales outside and they think they will cure out and be ok. What happens is they will go through a heat and the bacteria will feast on the protein & sugars in the hay. The hay will have a composition now of poor nutritional value. Often you may not be able to see it and the animals may even like the taste but if you have the hay tested you will be surprised to find out there is little usable protein in this hay.
You can tell the farmers that bale their hay too wet in round bales. You will see it in their cattle they will need other supplements to make it through the winter. Their calves will not be as healthy as well.
Alfalfa growers do use tedders successfully but you must use the tedder on the alfalfa when the leaves are moist with the dew or fresh mowed alfalfa. Your haybine is an advancement over a sicklebar mower. Where the economics of 3 point drum and disc mowers fall is between the haybine and the discbine mower conditioner. A good 15 year old haybine will likely sell in alfalfa country for more money than a NEW CCM drum mower. The place for the drum mower is usually the part-time or sundowner hay producer. Drum mowers and disc mowers will mow as fast as one can ride the tractor. They also can be used by smaller tractors. You will find that a haybine has problems when the crop it is mowing is wet. The disc & drum mowers do not have this problem. You can have you hay mowed and be at your day job while the haybine will just be starting to mow. You will gain a day's curing on this feature alone. A tedder will even speed things along even faster. The fastest way to put up hay is to take an expensive discbine and a tedder. There is after all a cost for technology.
For over 100 years we cut hay with sicklebar mowers, so it can be done. So can clothes be washed out by hand. Usually it comes down to the most bang for the buck. Just remember a quarter is allot of money if you just have a nickel.

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Kelly C

05-01-2005 08:54:31




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Chas, 05-01-2005 06:30:43  
Sounds to me a drum Mower need 2 tedder wheels on the rear. That way could cut and ted at the same time. Any welders out there?



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Tim(nj)

05-01-2005 13:29:50




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Kelly C, 05-01-2005 08:54:31  
I think Reese had a tedder wheel available for their 2-drum unit. I saw a drum mower demonstrated (finally, rare machines in this area) and it left the hay in a windrow between the drums. I"ve only seem pictures of the Reese unit, and the wheel was mounted over the windrow and looked like it spread the hay out behind the drum closest to tractor.



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kyhayman

04-30-2005 19:47:13




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Luke S, 04-30-2005 06:34:55  
Since I have a full time job off the farm I guess some folks would put me in the hobby definition too. $16000+ investment for 80 acres isnt bad.

As far as the tedder goes, make sure its really nice for that money. $1250 if you shop around will get a brand new one. Do you need it, one day you will. Nothing fixes rained on hay like a tedder. I struggled with the investment of $500 in one a few years ago. The next year, I sold it and spend $2500 on a 4 basket. One of my better investments.

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FrenzFarms

04-30-2005 07:31:51




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Luke S, 04-30-2005 06:34:55  
Welcome to farming. Im not sure what your other hobbies are, but raising 80 acres of hay is a *bunch* of hay! Glad to see you're motivated! Granted, you're cheating by using a round baler. You need to get an old, crappy square baler that breaks every 8th bale and makes the rest banana shaped. That's when the real fun starts! *cough* I'm glad winter is getting gone. I'll be glad to smell fresh cut hay again myself.

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txgrn

04-30-2005 07:02:42




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Luke S, 04-30-2005 06:34:55  
I think you are following the natural course of evolution. I did and now that I"m retired, I have something to do that is outdoors, creative, natural, propagates life, and partially pays for it"self.....which my fishing never did.

A tedder allows for even curing. I tried several things to "get the hay right", but having cows and a back pasture that has beautiful grass that horse folks love, I had 2 types of hay to bale. Cows get fed long stem, coarsy sudan sorghum and the horses light, fine stemmed, grasses. Cow feeding is best suited to the roll while the horse owners perfer squares.

The haybine works fine on both. I don"t like mowing wet grass so I usually wait to mow till 10am ish. The haybine is 9", easy to connect and disconnect, very versatile, easy to operate, and makes as much windrow as I want. On the stemmy stuff I roll for cows, the conditioner crushes the stems so it cures more evenly. The grass, being fine stemmed goes thru the conditioner without event.

The last (of 3) sickle mowers I had (currently have none...yeah) I couldn"t get the early season grass to cure cause it would lump up. Always had big clumps of grass here and there, especially in turns where the cutter reverses to make the square corner.

Bought a tedder to follow the sickle (another trip) to scatter what I had cut. Worked ok after I modified it so it would do the job it was supposed to when manufactured. The haybine doesn"t make clumps so I don"t need the tedder and since it cuts both nicely, that"s my cutter and tedder combined.

Neighbor had a D17 and put out 5x6 rolls of coastal bermuda for years. Based on that I would say it"s a good enough match.

On hobby or not, I suggest you find a good local tax preparer that caters to the farming community. You"d be suprised what is written into the tax code that can offer a big advantage for you.

Good luck,

Mark

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Joel Harman

04-30-2005 08:11:15




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to txgrn, 04-30-2005 07:02:42  
you will get better quality hay if you mow in late afternoon when sugars are up in the stems



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tim[in]

04-30-2005 19:09:32




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Joel Harman, 04-30-2005 08:11:15  
i've heard that the sugars[brix] are highest about noon and start falling toward dark.it starts rising in the morning and falls again toward night fall.



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txgrn

05-01-2005 06:37:37




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to tim[in], 04-30-2005 19:09:32  
I really think everyone has the same problem, and that is you need more time than a couple of hours in the afternoon to do your hayin. So, we just do the best we can.....including trying to outguess the weather this time of year.

Mark



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txgrn

04-30-2005 18:05:35




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Joel Harman, 04-30-2005 08:11:15  
I've heard that. Right now my main horse customer drives 85 miles to get my hay and passes up local hay at home and hay along the way.....must be something to it.

Mark



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Hay DR

04-30-2005 09:21:33




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Joel Harman, 04-30-2005 08:11:15  
You are correct that mowing late of an evening you will be mowing grass with the most sugar content. Once the dew falls in the evening a haybine will have to go to the house.
To a part-timer a drum mower gives them the option to mow in the evenings and not have to miss work at their day job.



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Hay Dr

04-30-2005 06:45:53




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Luke S, 04-30-2005 06:34:55  
A tedder is nice to have. The trend in tedders are larger tedders in the 16-24' range. The tedder you mentioned will do the same job but take longer to complete the job. The idea is to purchase time saving technology so we can do more. There is nothing wrong with the Rossi tedder and that is a fair price. Just remember we all are getting older and we just are not what we used to be so time saving technologies are great if you can justify their costs.

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JD70

04-30-2005 16:10:58




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 Re: haying equip advice in reply to Hay Dr, 04-30-2005 06:45:53  
What brand is the best value in hay tedders and rotary rakes?



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