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Corn planter saga continues

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Dieselrider

03-12-2005 04:29:13




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I would really like to find a two row three point hitch corn planter with fertilizer hoppers as well as gandy boxes and I know they are out there somewhere.

A friend has offered me an old pull behind two row planter that has a trip rope set up. When you pull the rope the cam allows the planter to set down and start planting. Pull the trip rope again and the cam pulls the planter out of the ground and stops the planting.It apears that the fertilizer hoppers apply the fertilizer right on top of the corn- which to me doesn't sound like a good thing. In your opinion, can this be changed (move the fertilizer hoppers over)and what type of fertilizer opener would be best to mount on the planter? Also could something like this be made three point and would gandy type boxes be mountable on something this old?

I'm just looking for opinions as to weather this old thing is worth the trouble or if I should keep looking for what I really want? Sorry but, this is alot longer than what I intended. Thanks in advance.

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Leroy

03-13-2005 08:23:31




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Dieselrider, 03-12-2005 04:29:13  
To answer some of your questions, Find out what the planter is you are looking at is, is it a clutch lift that is a horse drawen converted to tractor setup that would only have the press wheels to cary it or a regular tractor that hase the press wheels but also a pair of wheels to carry the whole frane of the planter ans these most likely would be rubber tires but they could also be steel wheels, next find out if it has the split boot fertilizer attachment or if it has the fertilizer opener that will place the fertlizer 2" to the side and 2" below the seed, with the split boot you are good for up to 200# of a 3-12-12 type fertilizer, for larger amounts you need the side placement unit so as not to burn the seed. The seed aplied treatment is good only for seed born diseasses and not good for the cutworms and the like and the insecticid is not good for the seed dieasses that cause seed rot and other problems so to cover for everything you need both, talk to your county agent on all this, and about the row starter fertilizer think of it this way, A small child seated and fastened in a high chair at the table he can only reach the food that is put in his arms length not what is across the table and not like an adult that has longer arms to reach farther or can get up to reach the food on the other side of the table, the baby corn plant when it needs the food it can get the food that is 2" from the plant but cannot get what is 15" or 20" from the plant in the middle of the row, when it has developed the roots then it can get that food. Years ago the thinking that starter fertilixer was passay and everyone including us went with brodcast only but found out did not work as good now everyone is back at using that row starter fertilizer alond with the broadcast fertilizer, you need the combination same as the treatment for full controll and usage, each complimates the other. Depending on the planter it may or may not be hard to convert from split boot to side placement but all you would do in replace the opener but not move the box. The unit planters would not have row markers to guide you in planting, you would have to come up with some other type of guide to keep the rows equal and straight. Taking a fertilizer from one make and model planter and trying to make work on anouther make and model would be just about impossible. you would have so much in hired labor and parts you could by 10 good complete planters set up for what you want for what it would cost to do that. The only advantage that a 3 point would have for you is if you are severly limited in the amount of space you have to turn around at end of row as the 3 point will turn shorter than the pull type, the 3 point could plant as close to fence as length of tractor but the pull type takes more room because you can't stop, raise, back up and turn, back up to row starting point, start foward and lower planter, if you have that problem then find a 3 point otherwise use a pultype, all the seed treatment and fertilizer your county extension agent should be able to help you with but remember only one insecticide is like only having one hand to tie your shoe instead of both hands, you get the job done partway. The Gandy unit I have is off of a Mccormic tractor planter and has one small part missing that could be made ans some insecticides are for putting directly in the row on top of the seed and some requite a T bander to put some in row with some on either side, check all this out before buying any unit. I have seen those cut down 4 row planters on ebay and from what I see he has never hooked up a drive to run the units as the drive wheels are gone and those units cannot be driven of the press wheels . If we would know what state you are in it would allso help. I am in North West Central Ohio

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Dieselrider

03-13-2005 11:17:36




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Leroy, 03-13-2005 08:23:31  
Leroy, I really appreciate all you guys taking the time to work with me on this. The planter only has the press wheels- I got that much from the guy who has it now. I am goiong to go look at it today if he is available. Maybe I can take some pictures and post them here. I am in west central PA. I have sent an e-mail to Penn State Ag department to ask for their input and I can call my county extension agent this week to see what he/she says.

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Leroy

03-14-2005 05:16:15




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Dieselrider, 03-13-2005 11:17:36  
If it only has the press wheels then it is a converted horse drawn planter and would never had any herbicide or insecticide attachments made for it and would also be impossible to find any fertilizer parts for it, Continue looking for a tractor planter and you are on the road to corect information. As for those JD unit planters the others are talking about I have no idea where they would have been sold as they were not sold in Ohio or Indiana and I am 61 and have never seen one of them. The only unit planter Make I ever saw was a old Ferguson colector planter that I had and sold to anouther Ferguson colector to compliment the other more popular versions that he already had. The only planters you could get plates for are the John Deere and IHC and that John Deere Plate fits the old snap coupler Allis Chalmers planter and they never made a pull type or 3 point hitch model that I ever heard of

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Indydirtfarmer

03-13-2005 05:05:42




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Dieselrider, 03-12-2005 04:29:13  
To plant my sweet corn, I use a 2 row #71 planter with liquid fertilizer (attachment made with parts from SHOUP) and seed applied insect treatment. Liquid spray applied herbicides.

I don't have any pictures of the #71 with the liquid set-up, but when I get it out in a few weeks, I'll post a picture. I use a 20 gallon plastic tank, mounted between the row units. Very simple to work with, and easy to clean. Almost all plastic, so no rust problem either.

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Dieselrider

03-13-2005 05:50:38




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 03-13-2005 05:05:42  
I was thinking about you and wondering how you did your sweet corn. I'd seen one of your posts before about haveing a JD 71 flex planter. I would be very interested seing pictures of that set up. I was thinking that if a guy had a way to turn the auger from the wheel of the planter you could also go dry fertilizer similar to what you're doing with liquid. Do you drive the fertilizer with a pump or just use gravity?

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Indydirtfarmer

03-13-2005 07:30:56




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Dieselrider, 03-13-2005 05:50:38  
I use a "variable rate squeeze pump" that I got through SHOUP that's designed for just this use. It's 12 volt powered, and I have a "remote" toggle switch that gets mounted on the tractor fender (with a magnet) to turn off and on the flow of fertilizer. The pump comes with some basic instructions that help in "calibrating" the feed rates. I spent about $260 on the entire fertilizer set-up. It's cleaner than granual fertilizer, easier to deal with, and with a drain petcock on the bottom of the tank, easier to EMPTY the tank than to clean out dry fertilizer. The "drops" are merely plastic extentions, with tubes running through them, that drag through the dirt right behind the disc openers, and in front of the press wheels. I have them set about 1-1/2" to the left of the disc openers. I use a very simular set-up on my 8 row planter. With proper equipment, liquid is so much easier/faster to handle than dry. It does cost a bit more, but in my case, the time and labor savings makes up for that. In your case, where you're planting a relatively small amount of sweet corn, the cost would be insignificant.

Also, the #71 planter has a drive sprocket under the seed hopper to power a dry fertilizer attachment. A savvy mechanich COULD take a 2 row fertilizer hopper off of , say, and old 495 JD planter, and adapt it to the #71.

All things being equal, I'd elect to go with the liquid set-up. Much cheaper to "construct". All parts are off the shelf stuff, and when done, you have a VERY simple to use system.

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Gerald J.

03-12-2005 19:27:25




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Dieselrider, 03-12-2005 04:29:13  
I don't think you can BUY granular insecticides and herbicides any more. Only liquid or already applied to the seed.

Gerald J.



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Leroy

03-12-2005 16:10:51




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Dieselrider, 03-12-2005 04:29:13  
First of all what make is that 2 row clutch lift planter? IHC or JD? Tractor or horse drawn? They could be newer than the 3 point hitch models and the fertilizer placement would depend on make and model and here it is still recomended to use starter fertilizer at any time, the ones that don't just don't think they have the time even if they loose some yield per acre. I do have a Gandy unit that I would sell that is off a 2 row IHC tractor pull type planter, was going to several year ago put it on a 494 JD planter but found out that the drive sprocket could not be mounted. If you would be interested in this Gandy unit post back. Also treated seed would also need to be used with seperate insecticide for good control as either will not do the job by itself

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Dieselrider

03-13-2005 04:45:56




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Leroy, 03-12-2005 16:10:51  
Leroy, I might be interested in the gandy box but, right now I am more confused than when I asked the original question. John is saying that I don't need it. The farmer who's old AC planter I have used in the past says I do need them. Broadcasting the fertilizer would be quick and simple and then I wouldn't have to worry about fert. placement but I would have to get seed already treated for everything-and will that be hard to find? Thanks, I will try to keep all this in mind. I think the planter is an old IH but, I haven't seen it and the guy that has it has no idea.

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jhill

03-12-2005 05:54:35




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Dieselrider, 03-12-2005 04:29:13  
It is going to cosy $400 or more for a good 3 pt planter. You should be able to convert pull type planter to a 3pt with a lillte fabrication work. With out seeing planter I cna't comment on moving the fertilizer box.

If you are interested I have a set of gandy boxes that are like new. I also have mounting brackets etc for a Case planter. Email me if interested



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Jason(ma)

03-12-2005 05:00:34




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Dieselrider, 03-12-2005 04:29:13  
Pre coffee post beware Sounds like a John Deere 246 would come close to fitting what your looking for. It sounds like the pull type planter you freind is showing you has a split-type Fert boot. Supposed to put fert on both sides of the seed. I like disc openers better. Take a look at the posts about a model 71? john deere flex planter converted into a 2 row. They show up on ebay from time to time. It shouldn't be hard to mount gandy boxes to any of these. If I may ask, why?

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John e.c.MI

03-12-2005 11:32:16




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 Why not just plant treated seed? in reply to Jason(ma), 03-12-2005 05:00:34  
Why not order your seed already treated with Poncho 250/1250 or Gaucho and forget about messing with insecticide seperately? Second, most universities will tell you that unless you soil tests are low in phosphorus, starter will not pay. Broadcast your NPK and plant.



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andy1

03-12-2005 15:51:38




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 Re: Why not just plant treated seed? in reply to John e.c.MI, 03-12-2005 11:32:16  
a



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andy1

03-12-2005 15:49:29




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 Re: Why not just plant treated seed? in reply to John e.c.MI, 03-12-2005 11:32:16  
a



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Dieselrider

03-12-2005 15:27:13




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 Re: Why not just plant treated seed? in reply to John e.c.MI, 03-12-2005 11:32:16  
Ok, now help me get this straight. If I broadcast my fertilizer on and then just plant treated sweet corn I won't need the fert. boxes or the gandy boxes? Will this treated corn work for root worm, grubs, wireworms and cutworms? Or will I need more than that and if so could I broadcast it on the corn later or apply it when cultivating? Is there a web site or somewhere to check this out? I'll look for Ponch and Goucho on the net. Sorry for the skepticism but, it sounds too good to be true. Thanks in advance.

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John e.c.MI

03-12-2005 16:40:09




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 Re: Why not just plant treated seed? in reply to Dieselrider, 03-12-2005 15:27:13  
Poncho 250 will get all those pests except root worm, for that you need to go to the extra strength Poncho 1250. I only grow 2-3 acres of sweet corn but most of the commericial vegetable seed companies are offering treated seed. We already have Bt(corn borer) resistant varieties on the market and I'll bet very quickly you will see YGRW(yeild guard root worm)varieties as well. As for the fertilizer, broadcast it, work it in and plant. No worries about getting too much too close to the seed. Don't knock yourself out making things harder than they have to be. How are you doing it now?

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Dieselrider

03-13-2005 04:58:19




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 Re: Why not just plant treated seed? in reply to John e.c.MI, 03-12-2005 16:40:09  
John, the way I have been planting is this. I borrowed an AC planter from a neighbor that has the fert. boxes and the insecticide boxes on and he is telling me I need this. Since he's been doing this alot longer than I have I had no reason to doubt him. If I can get away with what you're telling me then I won't have to worry about the insecticide boxes at all. I am not doubting what you're telling me but, I am more confused than before. Where would I find seed that you're speaking of? Would my local feed store be likely to carry it or would I more likely have to special order it? Thanks for all your help and I am sorry for all the questions that must seem really dumb to you.

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John e.c.MI

03-13-2005 08:24:03




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 Try this... in reply to Dieselrider, 03-13-2005 04:58:19  
I doubt your local hardware store that sells garden seed will carry treated seed. Try Siegers Seed or Harris Seeds for starters, both have web sites. You can also get a product called Kernal Guard that comes in a container about the size of a pop can. You just mix it on the seed in the hopper. It will get some of the pests you mentioned but not root worm. Remember insecticide is nasty stuff so try not to get it on your hands or breath the dust. You can e-mail me if you have any more questions. [email protected]

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Dieselrider

03-13-2005 10:17:50




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 Re: Try this... in reply to John e.c.MI, 03-13-2005 08:24:03  
The kernal guard you mention sounds good. Why couldn't I put other insecticide right in with the corn also to fight against root worm?



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John e.c.mi

03-14-2005 04:32:47




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 Re: Try this... in reply to Dieselrider, 03-13-2005 10:17:50  
I don't know if Poncho is availble by itself. I thought the seed had to be ordered with it. If you can buy it alone I see no reason why you could not add it to the seed yourself. I think you will need a way to measure out what will probably be a very small amount. Hope this helps.



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Dieselrider

03-12-2005 05:19:42




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Jason(ma), 03-12-2005 05:00:34  
The reason I want the gandy boxes is that I plant a small piece with sweet corn each year and don't have any convenient way to rotate the crop. I need the insecticide to keep things under control. Thanks. I have seen the JD 71 units on e-bay. Might be I should getr a six or eight row and cut them down?



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Gerald J.

03-12-2005 07:53:44




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Dieselrider, 03-12-2005 05:19:42  
JD 71 and 81 are single row units. Just the gangs of them you see are mounted on a handy tool bar. That tool bar can be shortened as much as you want.

The main difference between a 71 unit and a planter is that each 71 unit is driven by its press wheel, where in a planter there is a drive from the support wheels (whether three point or pull) and a common speed change transmission and the same shaft drives all units at precisely the same speed. So on the planter there is less to adjust and troubleshoot when changing seed spacing or seed type.

There is a farmer in Kansas who list cut down three point planters on epay regularly. use this for your search string, "(jd,deere) planter" leave off the quotes.

Vintage planters like the n94 JD tend to show up at Iowa consignment sales, I don't know about the rest of the world. The cycle planters from IH count seeds accurately but don't space them accurately, at least not the older ones. The smallest of the cycle and JD 7000 planters are 4 row.

Gerald J.

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Dieselrider

03-12-2005 09:25:16




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Gerald J., 03-12-2005 07:53:44  
How do they hook up the fertilizer boxes on a unit like that? Most of the ones I have seen on E-bay arer just the seed hoppers and no fertilizer box at all. Or is that not an option? Also do the gandy boxes fit these units? Thanks for the help.



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Dieselrider

03-12-2005 09:25:02




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Gerald J., 03-12-2005 07:53:44  
How do they hook up the fertilizer boxes on a unit like that? Most of the ones I have seen on E-bay arer just the seed hoppers and no fertilizer box at all. Or is that not an option? Also do the gandy boxes fit these units? Thanks for the help.



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Tim(nj)

03-12-2005 08:27:37




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Gerald J., 03-12-2005 07:53:44  
You can get 2-row 7000 type planters. Pequea Planter in Pennsylvania started making them on steel wheels with JD units for the Amish, then began to offer them on 3-point toolbars. Not cheap, though.



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Dieselrider

03-12-2005 09:31:25




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 Re: Corn planter saga continues in reply to Tim(nj), 03-12-2005 08:27:37  
That's my other problem, "they're not cheap". If I were going to put in 15-20 acres of corn then it would make sence to spend some money for a good 4 or 6 row ubit but, for a sweet corn patch? My wife says "I'm tighter than frog skin and that's water tight". LOl.



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