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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Ballasting When Loading Round Bales

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ClemBert

01-18-2005 04:43:48




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Is it necessary or recommended that you add addition weight to the back of your tractor when picking up round bales with your front-end loader? I have a JD 5320 55HP PTO/65HP Engine tractor which makes it a mid-size tractor. It has the extra wide industrial tires which are filled with water making it fairly heavy in the back. With this in mind, do I need to worry about the tractor tipping forward? I would be using a bale spear attachment which replaces the bucket attachment. Also, I would be lifting the bales up high enough to load a flat bed truck.

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TGIN

01-19-2005 02:54:53




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 04:43:48  
I always carry a bale on the back while carrying one on the front . Keep it low till ya get to the truck .



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paul

01-18-2005 09:06:07




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 04:43:48  
You always have to worry about rolling a loader tractor over. Always.

What size round bales? Some get to 2500 lbs. The water in your tractor is maybe 500 lbs each??

Some day someone will want a second row of bales stacked. The higher you go, the more dangerous the big bale up there becomes. a lot more so.

A better anchor in the rear is a better thing. Always.

Now, depends on how long your loader sticks out in front, how much weight you have on the back right now, how heavy the bales are, how flat the ground is where you are working, and such things. Hard to answer your question other than to say more weight on the rear is a good thing.

--->Paul

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ClemBert

01-18-2005 15:09:57




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 They are Round Bales in reply to paul, 01-18-2005 09:06:07  
The bales are small to medium size round bales. The person that baled the hay said the bales weigh 600lbs but I'd like to error on the side of caution so I'm going to call them 1000lb bales.



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paul

01-18-2005 16:59:20




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 Re: They are Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 15:09:57  
Cool. Sounds good.

I hope I don't sound too gruff or such. My appologies if I do. :) It's good to ask questions, and this is the place for it. :)

I'm just concerned about your safety, and the way you started your question was kinda like safety really doesn't matter..... I may have come back on that a bit.

I have a smaller compact loader as I mentioned below, ~27 hp. I also have a narrow front mid 1940's H tractor with narrow front and a pathetic old loader on it.

I've been running that H (oddly also about 27 hp!) hauling manure (heavy!) and other stuff for what, 35 years. It has never felt unstable to me. We have 400 lbs of concrete weight in the rear wheels, and place a platform on the rear hitch with another 500 lbs of concrete & steel weights on it. I drive around on my somewhat hilly & slippery cow yard, and have never felt the least bit unstable.

I've had the compact 4wd with loader for 23 months now. Love it. Like a pocket knife or a pliers, run it almost every day....

I was pulling 2 empty wagons with it, went down hill, & it wanted to jackknife. The rear end is just so light with the loader up front! Raking hay with it in the road ditches, it felt like I was going to tip. Just feels so unstable with the narrowness & very short wheelbase. And this is not even with a load in the loader!

I had fluid put in the tires in a hurry. That has made it a much more stable, safe, & useful _tractor_.

Still way to light for the loader tho. If I actually use the loader for something of weight, I hook on a 3pt box I made for it. Must have 500 lbs or more of rocks in it. Now, this makes it a more stable _loader_. It still doesn't feel as good as my old narrow front loader tho.

The short wheelbase & the front wheel drive makes it able to outdrive it's stability. The old H, when the rear end gets too light stops moving - wheels spin. With the long wheelbase, any weight on the rear wheels or behind really makes it stable.

The compact, the loader is about as far in front of the front axle as the rear wheels are behind it. Most compacts, including yours, are built that way. Very nimble & manuverable, but far harder to ballist & stablize that way.

Then, the front axle will have _all_ the grip you ever need, and will continue to move the tractor. If the rear gets too light, doesn't matter - tractor will still move forward, making the situation worse....

can put a person in a bad place.

But again, I hope my words weren't taken wrong. Sometimes I write a little to stern - just my style, in person I'm a really warm person & don't mean anything.

To your question, I would hang something on the 3pt, and keep it low. This will help take some weight off your front axle, as the fulcrum for this weight is the rear axle. Will be better for your tractor, as well as providing needed rear weight. Someday a weight box or rack would be nice, however any beefy 3pt implement you have would sure work.

--->Paul

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ClemBert

01-18-2005 17:54:02




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 Ouch, my feelings are hurt... in reply to paul, 01-18-2005 16:59:20  
Just kidding. Actually, I appreciate all the input I get...good or bad. I just hold a grudge against those that bash my 'lil tractor...again, just kidding. Just how many HP does it take to have a "real" tractor anyways? I only have 13 acres of flat horse grazing pastureland so anything bigger than my 55/65HP tractor would be ridiculous. It is big enough though to put it in four wheel drive and drive over all those real "compact" tractors. How many acres are you on...Ponderosa size? Thanks for all your input on this topic. I'm going to put my 110 gallon sprayer on the 3-pt hitch and fill it up with water. That'll add 900lbs or so to the back.

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paul

01-18-2005 19:06:25




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 Re: Ouch, my feelings are hurt... in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 17:54:02  
Well, around 220 acres. Pretty small.

I only have 2 'real' tractors by my own definition, and 4 others - too small or too old.

Maybe like their owner? :)

Of course the little or old tractors do more hours around this place than the 'real' ones.... ;)

--->Paul



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old

01-18-2005 08:26:02




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 04:43:48  
Depends on the bales etc. If you where moveing my bales you wouldn't go any where with out something on the 3 point. I move bales with a ford 801 tires full of fluid and back blade with 6 100lbs suit case weights on it and its still all I can do to move a bales 6X6 bales weights are 2500lbs each



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Craig M in NC

01-18-2005 07:52:22




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 04:43:48  
One thing I did not see mentioned was bale size. I load and unload round bales with a L3600 Kubota and an L 2250. Both of these tractors are considerably smaller than your tractor but I am loading 4 X 4 bales of dry grass hay. Larger bales and different kinds of hay may weigh much more. Even with these size bales I usually put something on back for ballast. Either a heavy three point implement or another bale of hay on a spear. And I make sure that I load on level ground and I am only loading a tag along trailer behind my pickup. I can stack them 2 high on it or 3 high in my barn. But I have to be very careful. And I won't let anybody without some experience handle the round bales on the loader. Be careful because you can get into trouble very quickly.

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R. John Johnson

01-18-2005 07:20:40




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 04:43:48  
Clem

You did not state if your tractor has MFWD. If it has, then weight is not as much of an issue, assuming, as the others have stated, that your tractor is physically big enough to load a trailer. Our 2755 with SGB and a 245 loader is borderline for loading semi trailers. It is 2WD with fluid filled rear tires. On snow If I don't have a bale on the rear forks, forget it. I will be spinning all the time. What lift height does you loader have? Again my 2755 is barely adequate. You may have trouble lifting high enough to load the top row. If you try to load a trailer be CAREFUL and take your time. If you feel that your tractor is not up to it, get someone else to load for you.

Good Luck

John

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Allan in NE

01-18-2005 06:15:39




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 04:43:48  
Mornin' Clem,

I don't know anything about your tractor, but isn't a 5320 on of those little compact outfits?

Boy! If so, I'm just not sure I'd wanna tie into loading a truckload of big round bales with one of those little tractors.

Please be careful!

Allan



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ClemBert

01-18-2005 15:20:48




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 Compact??? in reply to Allan in NE, 01-18-2005 06:15:39  
Here's a link to see the tractor. It's far from being a compact tractor but then again its not as big as some of those monsters that y'all have. It is the MFWD version. The spec shows the weight to be 4690 with ag tires which I assume does not include water in the tires. I have the industrial tires that are much wider than the ag tires and they are filled with water. My guess is that my tractor weighs 5800lbs not including the FEL.

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Allan in NE

01-18-2005 17:17:14




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 Re: Compact??? in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 15:20:48  
Hi Clem,

Hope you don't get the idea that I'm puttin' your tractor down, 'cause I certainly am not. It is one heck of a little outfit.

I'm just saying that it was not designed for farm use is all.

Allan



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ClemBert

01-18-2005 17:43:57




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 You mean they make bigger tractors than mine??!!! in reply to Allan in NE, 01-18-2005 17:17:14  
My skin isn't that thin and I didn't take it the wrong way so you don't have to apologize. "Compact" is a relative term thus compared to your tractor(s) my tractor is "compact". I was mearly pointing out that my tractor is not compact compared to a "compact" tractor. John Deere has their line of compact tractors whereas this tractor is listed as a utility tractor. In anycase, my "farm" is "compact"...ha, ha. Its only 13 acres of flat pasture land; used primarily for grazing land for my horses. I think a "real" tractor would be useless on such a compact farm. Anyhow, I very much appreciate your input regarding my question. How much acreage or you on anyways?

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paul

01-18-2005 17:08:11




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 Re: Compact??? in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 15:20:48  
The water is extra, & a wild guess is 700 lbs extra, going to the Firestone web site with tire size & amount of fill (you said water, CC is heavier, antifreeze is lighter) would give you exact weight.

Your tractor is on the bigger size of a compact. It has that very short wheelbase, which is the 'issue' on stability with a loader. Measure from the middle of a bale on the loader to the front axle; then measure from the middle of your rear tires to the front axle, and it might be about the same.... On a 'real' tractor the wheelbase is much longer, and the rear measurement will be much longer, making the fluid count a lot more.

Certainly a nice tractor tho. :)

--->Paul

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paul

01-18-2005 09:24:16




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to Allan in NE, 01-18-2005 06:15:39  
Yea, I just looked it up, it's likely a mfwa at 4500# dry weight (without a cab) little 3 cyl model. Would be a lot safer if he had the 2wd version actually, the rear wheels will slip before it flops over on him.

I'd strongly recomment loading bales _without_ the 4wd on in fact - if it spins out, you _know_ you don't have enough weight on the rear. This would be one of the best saftey deals he could do.... In 4wd, that front axle just keeps pulling you up & over hills, no matter how light the rear end gets - and that is a _bad_ thing in this case!

I got a NH compact with loader & 4wd, it's as handy as a pocket knife, but it is by far the most tippy tractor I have, so useful & fast & short & it keeps moving with that powered front axle, you can really put yourself in trouble before you know it. and I've been driving 6 volt tractors for 1000s of hours a year for decades.

This message sounds real scary.

If this were 4x4 round bales it might be a good match, but as I recall a while ago he mentioned 2000# bales, and sticking out on the front of such a short tractor, he will learn a lot about geometry - levers & fulcrum & such.

Keep the load low, keep it in low range, and have the seat belt on.....

--->Paul

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Allan in NE

01-18-2005 09:38:19




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to paul, 01-18-2005 09:24:16  
Hi Paul,

I agree. That's the trouble with those little golf course type tractors.

Fellas with little or no experience think that they have actually bought a real tractor and the next thing ya know, someone gets killed.

Allan



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thurlow

01-18-2005 06:08:06




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 04:43:48  
Most useful ballast is a VERY HEALTHY load of common sense..... ..without it, don't know that it matters what you hang off the back or your tractor. Suppose you should be commended for asking questions about a procedure with which you're not comfortable; but the fact that you need to ask such a question makes me think that you're out of your league.



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ClemBert

01-18-2005 15:30:44




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 New at loading round bales in reply to thurlow, 01-18-2005 06:08:06  
I ask the question because it will be the first time I have moved round bales with the FEL. I just like to be educated before jumping into something. There always is a first time for everyone...you and me. Thanks for the input. I plan to be cautious but educated.



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James in NC

01-18-2005 04:47:36




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 04:43:48  
A real simple fix is to but a bale on a 3pt. spear while you are loading. This would give a lot of offseting weight.



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James in NC

01-18-2005 04:47:15




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to ClemBert, 01-18-2005 04:43:48  
A real simple fix is to but a bale on a 3pt. spear while you are loading. This would give a lot of offseting weight.



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Roy in UK

01-19-2005 11:36:26




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to James in NC, 01-18-2005 04:47:15  
Have you ever thought about carrying a heavy block of concrete on the 3 point? It would come into its own when working in a building.Carrying a bale on the back would work I guess but the problem is it tends to restrict visabilty ( its oh so easy to back into things when you are using a loader! )



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ken macfarlane

01-20-2005 08:11:15




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 Re: Ballasting When Loading Round Bales in reply to Roy in UK, 01-19-2005 11:36:26  
Not to start anything but that is what we would call a farm tractor here. A dairy farmer or small beef guy would use that for doing all his daily chores from feeding to clean out. In summer they would use it for raking, square baling, moving wagons and picking up round bales in the fields (6x5 and 6x6 aren't popular here).

Not many people here own larger than 70 hp tractors for farming, most are about 60 hp. Only the guys who grow grain and need to drag big plows.

Ken

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