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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard

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Greenfield

01-03-2005 22:31:22




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Wonder why we do not see Angus or other true beef cattle breeds with Positive BSE tests. I accert that the Dairy Industry is to Blame not the True Beef Cattle Producer. The Dairy farmer should have to pay the Beef Cattle Producer for its depressed beef prices.




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Jerry/MT

01-05-2005 09:30:50




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Greenfield, 01-03-2005 22:31:22  
A lot of press is being given to BSE, I guess because it is always fatal and it's an agonizing way to die. But when you look at the numbers, Britain had about 180,000 cows identified with BSE when they finally took action; but if memory serves me correctly, there were only about 40 cases of v.CJD in humans total in England and the peak number of cases occured about 5 years ago. It appears to me that the disease is kinda' hard to catch. Canada has found 3 cows (one of them found in the US in December 2002)so far and the odds of finding any significant ammount more diminish as each year goes by since they banned ruminant feeds in 1997. I don't know of any cases of v.CJD in Canada attributable to Canadian beef, but I'm sure the numbers are small. I don't know the numbers for the US, but I'm sure the numbers are even smaller. Lets contrast that with the 70,000 people that are killed on US highways EVERY YEAR!( Thats more than were killed in 10 years in Vietnam!) I have to ask myself, why is there so much fuss over BSE? By all means lets irradicate it from our ruminat animals, but lets also keep it in perspective. It gets entirely too much press, in my opinion.

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justplainjim

01-06-2005 09:36:56




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Jerry/MT, 01-05-2005 09:30:50  
Canadian Fed Govt sat around with their thumbs up their bums until 1997. Even then the 'ruminant ban' was limited. Ruminant protein could still go into feed for other animals such as pigs or chickens. Beef fat (tallow), bonemeal, bloodmeal were also allowed. Always a chance for cross contamination in the feed mill or the barn. Even today, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is dithering on how to handle SRM's (Specified Risk Materials) from ruminants.
I also question the validity of testing since the sample size is/was quite small.
Enjoy your next burger!

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Seth_ia

01-04-2005 20:10:00




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Greenfield, 01-03-2005 22:31:22  
What you have to remember is that since BSE is a mutated form of a naturally occuring Transmissable Spongiform Encephalopathy, it is only spread through contaminated feed. The reason that bovine protein was used as feed was because it was cheaper than soybean meal in some place(mainly Europe). dairy producers are the segment of the cattle industry that closly watches feed and feed cost. Thats why we see BSE in dairy cattle, dairy producers looked for the cheapest feed possible. There are some "savy" beef producers who are just as much to blame as dairy producers. Just think if some producers were not so cheap and had bought good american soybean meal, we never would have had BSE.

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Chuck MI

01-05-2005 04:49:02




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 Am I missing something??? in reply to Seth_ia, 01-04-2005 20:10:00  
Last I checked cattle were herbivores. At what point did some idiot decide it was okay to not only force cattle to be carnivores, but actually canibals?



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Rick YYC

01-05-2005 08:55:48




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 good intentions, bad consequences in reply to Chuck MI, 01-05-2005 04:49:02  
I wondered too what genius came up with this idea of feeing animals to animals. From what I've read, it appears that it started back in the 1970s, when many people were looking for ways to reduce the amount of stuff being put into landfills. A lot of animal protein left over from the rendering process was being dumped like this.

It was thought then that the rendering process made these "leftover" proteins completely safe to feed to animals... so tests were done on feeding it to cattle. Like always that cheap solution looked atttractive.

For a good long time. But some holes in the research eventually came home to roost, as we now see.

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Seth_ia

01-05-2005 14:22:37




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 Re: good intentions, bad consequences in reply to Rick YYC, 01-05-2005 08:55:48  
Heavens forbid that those cheap Europeans would by american soybean meal. Prions(what cause BSE) are virtually indistructable. They are not killed by heat or any chemical. The best and surest way to get rid of prion is to put the carcass in a vat of boiling lye. The boiling lye breaks the proteins into the basic amino acids(what protein is made of).



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Silver Pig

01-04-2005 08:50:37




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Greenfield, 01-03-2005 22:31:22  
I agree 110 percent, I live in Erath County, Texas, which bills itself as the largest dairy county in Texas, and the dairy industry is constantly being caught polluting the water supply with their waste water runoff. Unlike the beef industry, and the commercial cattle feeders, which have to meet the same pollution control standards, WITHOUT the benifit of government subsidies, the dairy industry will drag the beef producers, and the reputation which the beer producer has worked so hard to earn and uphold, right down into the gutter, then the fly by night dairy operations will pull up and go some place else and start all over with their disease ridden operations.
I like milk, but to see the operating conditions of these Government Subsidized operations is sickening.
There was an editorial in Range Magazine a few months ago, authored by the President of the California Cattle Raisers Association, that brought up these points, as well as the fact that the Dairy Industry has hindered every attempt to control the spread of Brucellosis, as well as denying their responsibility for the introduction of Mad Cow Disease into the the beef supply. Dairy animals should be slaughtered for pet food only.

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JMS/MN

01-04-2005 07:31:31




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Greenfield, 01-03-2005 22:31:22  
Beef cows may be older than dairy cows but they are not fed with the same intensity. They don't require the same protein levels for production as dairy cows, and they get by on poorer quality feed. They simply were not fed the same proteins as what were used in some dairy rations and are now outlawed. Prices are always cyclical- just like when a drouth in beef cattle areas causes the rancher to dispose of his herd- it also drops the market for dairy beef.

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Sid

01-04-2005 05:51:24




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Greenfield, 01-03-2005 22:31:22  
Who is gonna pay the dairy farmer? Bkeepr is right, should not be any we-they. I wonder if anybody has done any research on what kind of tractors were involved in the few and I repeat few farms that have had problems with BSE.



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Nebraska Cowman

01-04-2005 05:48:14




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Greenfield, 01-03-2005 22:31:22  
aw, quit your whinin', Greenfield, it ain't nobodys fault and just be glad is not worse than it is.



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Bkeepr

01-04-2005 04:17:20




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Greenfield, 01-03-2005 22:31:22  
Suspect it has to do with the amount of time dairy farmers keep animals versus beef farmers.

The main cause of transmission is/was from feed, and the changes to feed rules went into effect several years ago. The positive Canadian cow yesterday was 8 years old, prior to the feed rules.

We're all in this together, shouldn't be any "we-they".

JMHO.

Tom A



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Michael Soldan

01-04-2005 06:15:43




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Bkeepr, 01-04-2005 04:17:20  
First of all, thank you Beekeeper, the beef industry is an integrated North American industry. As a Canadian my understanding of this issue is based on the feed that was allowed for bovines up until 1997. After that time no animal protiens were allowed in feed, and quite right,the dairy cow was(I understood 10 yrs old) but may have been 8.What is at issue here is not that there may be a case of BSE but the science that has been developed, on this side of the border there is every confidence that testing procedures and the Canadian cattle identification program will identify and eradicate all BSE. Considering that the source for causing BSE has disappeared and the technology for safe identification, testing of animals and testing of carcasses, ensures that no material enters the human food chain that shouldn't. Two cases of BSE in Canada and one case in the United States all of which were identified and the testing of animals in the beef industry should alleviate all fears, given a few short years , there should not remain any animal with the disease in either country. Both countries have long banned imported breeding stock from countries where BSE has been a problem. American processing plants need to get back to work, 1000's of employees need to get back to work and cattlemen need to resime this integrated industry. Incidentally the only thing I saw as a Canadian during all of this was that the demand for beef never changed here at home, it was just as expensive in the stores as always..the only difference was that farmers were paid little for it. Could another case be found...yes maybe in Canada, maybe in the US it doesn't matter, eventually it will be eradicated. I'm no expert, this is just my viewpoint that beef is a North American industry and we are on our way to working it out....Mike in Exeter Ontario

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R. John Johnson

01-04-2005 11:28:52




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 Re: Dairy Cattle: The Positive BSE Heard in reply to Michael Soldan, 01-04-2005 06:15:43  
I agree with you Mike. North America has worked towards an integrated herd for many years, and problems on one side of the border will eventually cause problems on the other. I also agee with a comment on another thread, about where animals are being rendered and put back in to feed other animals. Using cattle for chicken feed and then using chickens for cattle feed sounds to me like a recipe for future problems, but I am sure that some companies stand to lose a lot of money short term and are pushing politicians hard to hold the line. Personally I think we should be testing all the old cull cows as they are sent to slaughter. If there is any more BSE here in Canada, that is where it will be found and we should stamp it out completely. Again the cost to big business is the main hold up and again it may be short term savings for long term expense. We heard how much it was going to cost to test every animal, but those costs were grossly inflated. I seem to recall the plant in the US that was wanting to test all its beef to export to Japan had the time and cost down to a very reasonable number. I suppose I am for a very long term PERMANENT sollution to this problem, in spite of short term costs. Its still cheaper than the loses occured in the Canadian cattle industry and the money pumped in by our government on support programs.

Just my two cents.

John

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