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fretilizer spreader

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Kelly C

12-14-2004 07:23:54

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I am looking at getting a fretilizer spreader.
What should I be looking for? Would like to be able to put 100 pounds of nitrgen from bags onto the field.
I have seen those 3pt spreaders that sling the stuff out the back for around $300 but dont know if thats the best thing to use. Fields are 6 to 25 acres in size.

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teddy

12-16-2004 16:15:07

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

Please look this up ::

Link
02AG003%20Nitrate%20Poisoning.htm

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JMS/MN

12-16-2004 11:41:36

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

If you are going to a local supplier and they are sold out of common products like urea, ammonium sulfate, etc., you need to find another dealer. Urea is a dry product, 46 % N. Your supplier should have a spinner spreader available for free-= holds 4-6 tons, spreads 40-50 feet wide. If they apply (here) they charge 4-5 bucks per acre, but if I pull it and spread, the spreader is no charge. I know that you are somewhat north of metro, check with dealers just north of you- ones that serve farm customers. Some dealers in the St. Cloud area have recognized the value in courting customers in that 'metro' area- some deliver 50-60 miles, i.e. Rice dealer delivers south of STC. No need to buy a spreader and handle bags. Bulk spreader can do 50-60 acres per hour behind your tractor.

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Tim(nj)

12-16-2004 16:43:57

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to JMS/MN, 12-16-2004 11:41:36

I need to move. Our local dealers (there"s only 2 to choose from) both charge $35 per day for the buggy and $12 an acre for custom spread. Both run out of fertilizer. Neither has storage for the whole spring"s worth of fertilizer, and both plants are on rail spurs served by Norfolk Southern. NS is real bad at delivering 100-ton carloads of ingredients on time.

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kyhayman

12-16-2004 20:20:45

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Tim(nj), 12-16-2004 16:43:57

$12.00 and acre!! wow. All our dealers furnish free buggies and custom spreading for $2 and acre. If they didnt they wouldnt last long, competition is cut throat, most have to sell fertilizer at or below cost to keep the seed and chemical business. Rail must be nice though, ours is trucked in and have seen them use 3 semis of ammonium nitrate a day.

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Tim(nj)

12-17-2004 06:30:15

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to kyhayman, 12-16-2004 20:20:45

have to take into account cost of doing business in this state, too. Local municipalities have lost big industry, so they tax the daylights out of commercial operations like the fertilizer plants, plus there"s an inventory tax from the state. Then they have to pay the help a lot more than in other areas because cost of living. Example: Latest study says for a lousy 2 bedroom apartment, you have to make at least $40,000 a year to be able to pay the rent. Our fuel taxes are higher than in other states. Fields are small and odd shaped with obstructions in them, and application must be done like this: 20 acres here, go 1 mile, 15 acres there, go 1/2 mile, 6 acres there, go 2 miles, 22 acres there, etc. So costs add up. I guess that"s what happens when you"re among the last in a dying industry in a rapidly suburbanizing area.

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Kelly C

12-17-2004 07:07:46

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Tim(nj), 12-17-2004 06:30:15

Just think though. You could sell a few acres of land there and buy a whole farm here in MN. Come on over we like every one!!!

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paul

12-17-2004 12:26:33

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-17-2004 07:07:46

I forget how far north you are, but I can't imagine you can't find a rental spreader for way cheaper than bagging.

I do understand the issue of finding fert when you want it. Have you looked around at other suppliers in the area? I guess I explained my local situation to Kyhayman below, so won't repeat....

--->Paul

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JMS/MN

12-16-2004 19:12:05

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Tim(nj), 12-16-2004 16:43:57

The $12 per acre charge- is that if they do it? I guess that is the difference if you live in people country or farm country. Any outfit like that would not survive out here. Our plants need to get resupplied several times in the spring, via rail or truck. Just a normal course of events, but we've never had to wait for product. If we did, we'd go to another supplier, 10-15 miles away. Must be a plus for being in an ag area.

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Dave in Mo

12-16-2004 10:03:00

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

I use a 10 foot EZ-Flow spreader for about 3 acres. It'll hold at least 1/2 ton of lime or fertilizer and is super quick..... ....but I wouldn't want to do 25 acres with it! Cost 100 bucks in excellent condition about 6 years ago. I just hose it out each time we use it and spray it with WD40.

poke_here

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Kelly MT

12-19-2004 22:20:29

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Dave in Mo, 12-16-2004 10:03:00

I picked up an old EZFLOW 10 foot at a auction this fall. Does yours have spoke wheels? I'm trying to find a book or information on the settings. PK

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Dave in Mo

12-20-2004 04:36:44

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly MT, 12-19-2004 22:20:29

Mine does have the spoked wheels and no, I don't have a manual. Just trial and error! I generally mix lime with my fertilizer or seeds at a ratio thats seems about right. It makes a good trace mark and the soil can always use help balancing acid in the rain.

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PaMike

12-16-2004 09:06:01

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

This is a little off the topic but since we are on the topic of fertilizer can you guys answer some questions I have? I got a soil test done by Penn State. They recommend P and K, but no N when used on an eztablished pasture. But you guys are talking about using Urea, which is straight N right? Also, you want the Urea on right before the rain so the water puts the N in the soil right?

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James2

12-16-2004 19:33:11

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to PaMike, 12-16-2004 09:06:01

If you have any legumes, such as red clover, alfalfa, white clover, urea; aka "nitrogen" can be a little tough on them. It can be a fine line to put enough N on to help the grasses and not stunt the legumes. The Brits have perfected the art of growing good grass and use quite a bit of N. We only dress urea on wheat when a rain is forecast within the next 24 hrs. This is testing my memory, but I believe I read that approx 10% N is lost from urea each day the temperature is above some given ambient. Again really testing my memory, I think the temperature was 70 or 75 degrees. You can add an inhibitor but that is expensive. I really prefer to use ammonium nitrate, but from my experience it's expensive and getting tougher to find. The last ammonium nitrate we used was side dressed on corn. The CoOp would get the stuff, but would not store it for insurance reasons. Perhaps if the price comes down, encapsulated (time released) urea is the wave of the future.

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thurlow

12-16-2004 13:56:20

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to PaMike, 12-16-2004 09:06:01

Urea is 46% N; it is somewhat volatile under the right atmospheric conditions; hence the need to get it incorporated via rain or tillage. Ask the dealer you're buying it from if conditions are such locally that it needs to be applied just before a rain..... or if it can lie on top of the soil for a while. I would go with my soil test recommendations..... ..

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Paul in Mich

12-16-2004 06:39:27

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

Kelly, Most farmers in my area rent a spreader from the local fertilizer distributor. The Distributor will mix andload, and set the spreader properly. The rental cost is nominal in comparrison to purchasing cost for a piece of equipment that gets limited use, yet is a high maintainence item, as much of the product going through the spreader is highly corrosive, and eat up bearings like a family of 12 eat White Castles.

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jason(ma)

12-14-2004 19:03:43

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

How I do it, when using a bag product I use my Vicon 3pt spreader, works well. When using bulk products I use a stolfuz spreader, a short line out of PA, might be what some people are calling a buggy spreader. We call it a low boom lime spreader and just put a divider into to keep it from bridging. This also works well, harder to keep accuary when using under 200lbs of product/ac.

Have you considered 1 ton bulk bags?

I myself don't care for coop's spreading, always seams to be too wet or crops too high ect.. when they want to do it.

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kyhayman

12-14-2004 18:02:57

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

Hey Kelly C,

Sounds like you are the one doing some winter planning this year. I curious, are you top dressing urea to need it just ahead of the rain? As an option, have you thought about using ammonium nitrate and a buggy spreader?

I had an Easy Flow, and intentions of using it. At an $80 a ton premium for bagged fertilizer and the thought of handling all those bags I never used it. I normally put 80# actual N on my grasses early (240# ammonium nitrate) per acre.

Of course, with N prices the way they look I may have to cut back. Not sure how much of I price increase I can get through.

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Kelly C

12-14-2004 20:18:07

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to kyhayman, 12-14-2004 18:02:57

Yes I am planning. Last year after the 1st cutting I went to get some and they were sold out.
My 2nd cutting was no good as a result.
At least 1000 bales less than I was expecting.
Not going to let that happen again.
Going to pre oreder all I need and bagging it cost $25 ton here.

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Jason(ma)

12-14-2004 18:49:04

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to kyhayman, 12-14-2004 18:02:57

Can you get real ammonium nitrate? Last time I saw some back in Okalhoma it was a blend of urea and fillers.

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kyhayman

12-14-2004 18:53:11

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Jason(ma), 12-14-2004 18:49:04

Its all any of the dealers in this county carry. Urea has to be brought in from some places that raise something besides hay and tobacco. Urea can contain a byproduct (biuret) that is toxic to tobacco, and we are almost exclusive over the top in notil tobacco. I usually use 15 tons or so a year on hay and pasture, another 1000# an acre on tobacco.

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paul

12-15-2004 16:42:50

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to kyhayman, 12-14-2004 18:53:11

And you don't see it up here in MN, would raise eyebrows if you requested a few ton here....

Tho is that the stuff you use with herbicides, sold in the 40# bags? Pretty spendy, has to be pure to go through a sprayer.

I always get my N sources confused, most everyone is in corn here in southern MN, and NH3 is about all we know. A little bit of granular in the starter, don't even know what they use, it's mostly P & K.

I'm surprised Kelly can't find better applicators up there, they charge $2 an acre down here, or you can pick up the spinner buggy & there is little added cost. Bagged would cost a _bundle_ just 1/2 way down the state....

I just got one of those little 3pt spinners, but was a fall purchase, don't know how it works yet!

--->Paul

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kyhayman

12-16-2004 20:33:29

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to paul, 12-15-2004 16:42:50

I've not seen it in 40's, ours that comes bagged comes in 50's (I have got ammonium sulfate in 40's as a spray additive, you are right it is expensive). Its usually a white prill like urea with a stronger ammonia odor. Keeps better than urea in hot humid climates (less hygroscopic) but still takes up water badly, doesnt loose quality as fast though. At the plant it is more expensive than urea per unit of N but based on demand and use (both in tobacco and in mining/construction) it is more available locally. Main advantage to it in other crops is that it does not volatilize like urea so works well in no til situations and is more rapidly available in cold wet soils. Last year I got it on January prepay for $200 a ton at 34% actual N. I could buy urea 40 miles away for the same money but hauling it isnt cheap and he doesnt stock it all season.

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paul

12-17-2004 12:20:56

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to kyhayman, 12-16-2004 20:33:29

That's it, just can't keep my N sources straight! :) Buy from the coop & always want N,P,K, they do all the mixing, so I never pay attention to the raw product I guess.

One of the coops was talking about a million dollar addition this year, to double the fert warehouse. Getting so that they must pre-pay & take a single delivery of a year's worth of fert, or they are stuck buying on the spot market for what doesn't fit in the warehouse - if you can. Oy. At least they have rail access.

I have 4 coops (all CENEX-based) and one private company that supply bulk fert around me. Used to be able to buy it bagged, not sure if I still could - it's spendy to go that route. I believe they all have supplies about year around, not that any gets used in the tundra months here in MN.

The private company makes a lot of the Ice Melt stuff used in Minnesota, they run 2 shifts bagging that all fall & winter, and now have gotten into bagging lawn fertilizer, not sure they do very much bulk sales any more - selling to home owners pays a lot more. But their plant burned down a decade ago, rebuilding & paying the EPA cleanups I'm sure they need to make high dollars....

--->Paul

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Teddy (punchie)

12-14-2004 15:18:35

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

HI Kelly C

I would add to what James2 is saying.

I use a 12' EASY FLOW , I think this is the parent co that made most of them. Would not trade it for any other. Have used the speeders and well the only thing I can think that they would be better at spreading, would be top dressing corn with N.

I would say you would be able to use a truck with this spreader tractor wouyld work better. Spread about acre in 15 min. from 25-30 up too whatever. They were made to seed to but have not see one with the adtachment (sp) . They are to do a good good on lime have yet to try that. They come apart for cleaning and I have a Book if you have any questions. I'm looking to get an other one in a little better shape this or next year. they spread ok if it is raining try not to leave fertizler over night would need to reset the gates to a larger size to clean it out, but does clean out ok, if useing a higher phosphate no cleaning needed. just hose her out.

Teddy

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James2

12-14-2004 16:59:33

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Teddy (punchie) , 12-14-2004 15:18:35

Ted:
Yes, you are correct it's too cold to go out to the farm, but I do remember it has EZ Flow on it as well as the New Idea logo. And again yes, I also disassemble the wheels/drives on each side, and completely wash out the inner gear drive area. It was difficult to disassemble the first time but not so bad after assembling with anti-seize. Takes a couple of hours to do a good job. My father had a ten ft model and used it sparingly, it just took too long although he firmly believed resulted in a better application. The first time I pulled it out and was spreading urea on wheat which was a foot tall, the neighbors thought I had gone bonkers. Jan told her husband that for some reason, I was just driving aimlessly over the wheat, thought I had developed some kind of new fetish. In the end the wheat did really good, over 80 bu/acre on timber soil. I'm glad someone else is also a non-conformist

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James2

12-14-2004 17:03:12

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to James2, 12-14-2004 16:59:33

Dang this ill tempered computer machine, I also wanted to add that the three point JD spreader was a model C392 not a 301.

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paul

12-14-2004 17:05:23

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to James2, 12-14-2004 17:03:12

Would this be like a JV Van Brunt drop spreader? Have one, saw a few over the years, not many tho here in southern MN.

--->Paul

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James2

12-14-2004 17:29:44

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to paul, 12-14-2004 17:05:23

Yes, very similar. In essence identical. And you are correct; i.e., very difficult to find in the western mid west and if you do, they are generally in poor condition. I was very lucky.

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Teddy

12-14-2004 15:20:22

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Teddy (punchie) , 12-14-2004 15:18:35

Sorry for typos that back button didn't work , LOL

Teddy

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James2

12-14-2004 10:20:49

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

It seems like I always have about three of everything and in this case I have a 12 ft drop spreader, 1000 lb 3 point JD spreader (301?) and have used the CoOps buggy. With a small tractor (we use a farmall Super A, JD 430 or Massy 81, the 12 ft spreader can cover wheat in early May without causing any damage. You will spend a day doing 50 acres this way. The 3 point requires a larger tractor and it will do damage. For fall work, I just rent the buggy if it is not wet. I also have occasionally hired the CoOp to spread fall fertilizer using their air spreader, but I am convinced that I do a much better job. I bought the 12 ft NI spreader for $75 at a sale. The 3 point JD I paid $450, mainly because it was a JD, although being a French built spreader, it is much more rugged than the plain Jane TSC type spreaders. Although it is more work, which seems like you able and willing to do, I would go with the drop spreader, if you can find one in good condition. But this could be a bigger challenge than spreading the fertilizer.

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Carp

12-14-2004 08:52:00

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

We use a 3 pt Vicon. It will hold about 750 pounds of fert. That normally covers 2 to 3 acres for me. If you are doing more than 25 acres, it will take quite a while to spread.

If I am doing more than 3 tons, I just buy it bulk and the local coop puts into a buggy and lets me use it. I pull the buggy home with the truck and use the tractor to spread it. It is cheaper to buy bulk as well. The only problem is like you stated, when the weather is perfect, me and 20 other people want the buggies at the same time.

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TP from Central PA

12-14-2004 08:32:30

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

Just get a spinner spreader..... .....Will work just great. Our fert. dealer has acouple fert. buggies that you get when you buy fert..... ..... ...You spread it with your tractor and then tow it back to them.

That is how we did it.

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Hay Dr

12-14-2004 08:06:12

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 07:23:54

You should be able to purchase fertilizer from a local COOP in bulk and have them spread it for you for minimal charges. Above 5 acres it starts to become work with even a 1000 Lbs spin spreader.

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Kelly C

12-14-2004 08:30:07

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Hay Dr, 12-14-2004 08:06:12

I checked into that. It was very expencive for them to do it. Like $200 extra. Plus timing just before a rain would be an issue. I would just rather have bags on hand and do it when the timing is right for rain and me.

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Iowa Jim

12-14-2004 17:08:44

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Kelly C, 12-14-2004 08:30:07

I don't mess with spreading my own fertilizer. The local Coop and fertilizer dealer spread it for $2/acre. Definitely worth the extra for them to mess with it. Plus they have GPS and will apply variable rates for the different soil types on my various field.

Jim

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Tim(nj)

12-14-2004 18:42:13

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Re: fretilizer spreader in reply to Iowa Jim, 12-14-2004 17:08:44

They charge $12 an acre here . . . . variable GPS application is not available. If it was, we"d have to pay a fee on top of the $12 for its use, I"m sure.

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