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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

steel hyd line burst - replacement advice

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barryinmn

11-17-2004 17:36:23




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Should I source another steel line with multiple bends about 8' total or just buy a rubber prebuilt hose?




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Gerald J.

11-17-2004 21:11:31




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to barryinmn, 11-17-2004 17:36:23  
If there are bends very close to the end, the length of the crimp sleeve on the rubber hose may be too long to make the bend. I tried a rubber hose to replace a twisted steel line on my 4020 and wasted the cost of the rubber hose because it wouldn't bend quick enough.

Gerald J.



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old

11-17-2004 18:47:01




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to barryinmn, 11-17-2004 17:36:23  
Depneds on if its a high preasure or low preasure hyd system. If high you can go with the rubber/steel line or use, (and can't spell it right) skedule 80 pipe, the 40 will not take the peasure. Don't ask but hot hyd oil doesn't feel good. Asl it can be very unsafe, 2500-300- psi is deadly.



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thurlow

11-17-2004 18:06:34




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to barryinmn, 11-17-2004 17:36:23  
Unless it burst under a fitting (flare, compression, etc), just braze it up..... I've fixed a many-a-one on these old John Deeres..... .



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James2

11-18-2004 09:03:21




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to thurlow, 11-17-2004 18:06:34  
You should never fix a hole in a high pressure steel line by brazing. Can be welded, but again I repeat, should not be brazed. As the gentleman said, hose is ok if you don't have to exceed the mininum bend radius. OEM's use steel line because it is cheaper when used in production quantities. Occasionally OEM's will use hose instead of steel in an application which appears ideal for steel. It is likely this is done to lower system pressure spikes, i.e. the hose acts like a small accumulator. Mechanics sometimes will fix small hole (note the small) by brazing, for a temporary fix. In general this is a poor practice, because in almost all cases the "fix" will fail, resulting in at least a constant drip and more likely a repeat of the original failure which may have shot a stream of high pressure oil where you didn't want it. I have seen people so foolish that they even braze high pressure fuel lines. In general this is an area that it does not pay to cut corners. If it means that you wouldn't be able to eat for the next two weeks or if the machine is just a show piece, maybe you can justify not fixing it correctly. But for the remainder of the people in the world, I strongly suggest that it be fixed correctly.

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thurlow

11-18-2004 09:26:36




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to James2, 11-18-2004 09:03:21  
The 20 series new generation John Deeres are notorious for developing leaks in the hydraulic lines, usually due to vibration or at a wear point; my Dad and I have/had 12-15 of these tractors between us; don't know how many lines I've brazed up; at least 5 per tractor, maybe two or three times that many. NEVER HAD ONE TO FAIL. I stand by my original post, IF ONE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING.



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buickanddeere

11-18-2004 21:22:59




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to thurlow, 11-18-2004 09:26:36  
Why did you treat the symptom so many times and leave the cause uncured? Re-supporting the lines at known trouble spots and cushioning wear points. This would have prevented the dozens of holes after the first few leaks showed a pattern of failure?



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thurlow

11-19-2004 07:31:50




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to buickanddeere, 11-18-2004 21:22:59  
Hey B & D; just a design weakness; numerous hydraulic lines (6 maybe) going from front to rear of tractor; they were supported at various places, but still vibrated; they eventually developed leaks. At any place where there was a pattern of failure, i.e. where they crossed each other, would put appropriate sized rubber hose around both. Also, where they ran under the operater's station platform, they were prone to rust and develop pin holes. I've still got 4 of these old 4020s, although I'm semi-retired and just screw around with some cows and hay; in the 60s, when they were new, they were our "big" tractors and were used HARD

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buickanddeere

11-19-2004 08:20:44




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to thurlow, 11-19-2004 07:31:50  
Before transferring to a different plant I spent 12 years frustrated. 99.9% of the time where repetitive failures occurred we could not get a design change approved. Often the repair was low cost and simple. The money, time and dose we received was a waste approaching criminal. The engineers and management were both lazy and scared if anything went wrong they would be blamed. Also changes in design, planning , revisions to the drawings, submissions to the CNSC etc started at $100,000.00. I couldn't see what difference it made as these people were there sitting their duffs anyways. Saving that $100,000 cost multi millions in lost production as well. And even at the level of the men on the tools. So many times I see the symptom treated but the cause remain. I had to show the auto transmission shop mechanics and foreman that the reason the clutch packs kept wearing out again and again in my car was low oil pressure. They had it in their heads and the blinders on thinking it was just too aggressive driving in a hot car. They sure looked suprised when they all looked at the pressure gauge. Funny how they never said sorry for the previous repeated repairs I paid for. Sorry for the rant but it's a touchy personal subject.

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thurlow

11-19-2004 08:33:23




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to buickanddeere, 11-19-2004 08:20:44  
I got it..... ..... ..... .as far as the hydraulic line failures, can't say it really bothered me; just the cost of doing business; not talking about a 1st year/1st thousand hour failure; we're talking a LOT.....A LOT.... of hours on these old tractors..... .....



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barryinmn

11-20-2004 20:05:28




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 Re: steel hyd line burst - replacement advice in reply to thurlow, 11-19-2004 08:33:23  
I put hoses on the machine. They fit with the help of a couple of swivel adapters.

Lots of good advice! The line is on an old - really old pull behind rock picker that has a hyd comb bucket that can dig or flips up into a bucket which in turn flips up behind to dump. The comb bucket has 2 2 way cyls & dump bucket has 2 1 way cyls. There are 3 steel lines running across the machine behind the axle for the far side cyls. It looks like roots or rocks pulled the lines away from the frame & caused the rupture. I'm testing this with a log splitter motor/pump as I don't want contamination in the tractor.

There is a spring loaded front/rear valve to direct flow that's missing it's actuator mechanism.

My plan is to put it back to work & still have less in it than they go for at auction.

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